Apple forces Telegram to Close Channels Run by Belarus Protestors
decrypt.co
decrypt.co
Another example of Apple having too much control over iOS app distribution and why sideloading should be allowed.
Apple didn’t ask for the channels to be closed. Just the doxing posts. That seems a lot more reasonable.
As for ‘doxing the oppressors’, three law enforcement officers were indivually targeted. Sure they are part of an oppressive system, but so are many other people.
Deleting their messages means deleting the entire contents of channels.
Or do you think that we should put corporations in charge of criminal justice?
Their have simple rules: no doxxing.
It is not black and white case.
> Or do you think that we should put corporations in charge of criminal justice?
Exactly because Apple is not in charge of justice, they apply these rules equally to everybody.
It sounds like their stance is to be amoral, with no purpose other than to enhance shareholder value, even if it comes at the cost of human suffering.
Ah, that would be a corporation.
I think Apple moderating Telegram is bad, but if moderation exists, closing this channel is a consistent thing to do for them. Same rules apply to everybody: no doxxing allowed, and Apple does not decide who is terrorist, and who is freedom fighter.
If the US government is sanctioned and called illegitimate internationally, then again, doxxing those oppressors is fair game.
It’s either that or you let it fester into a shooting war, which is admittedly far more profitable than civil unrest.
So actually, Apple is helping out international criminals, against international precedent.
Yes, Apple is helping international criminals. Because Apple is not the international court and international law enforcement. It’s good that Apple did not make that precedent trying to become one.
It’s also paradoxically why we need a real open alternative and not state regulation of App stores.
Telegram will be restricting access to the channels on iOS, but users on other platforms will continue to be able to access them unimpeded. While this is still a terrible move by Apple, it’s an important distinction to make, as the channels do remain accessible to the majority of people.
Durov hopes that blocking them from iOS and not other platforms will satiate Apple's demands, but it's not definite and according to him, just an assumption.
> Apple released a statement (https://www.gazeta.ru/tech/news/2020/10/09/n_15056407.shtml) saying they didn't want us to take down the 3 channels (https://t.me/durov/135) run by the Belarusian protestors, but just specific posts "disclosing personal information."
He goes on to clarify that the request effectively amounts to asking that the channels be deleted, but that restricting them on iOS should be sufficient.
Regardless of your take, at the moment, the following statement is false:
> Apple forces Telegram to Close Channels Run by Belarus Protestors
For now:
1. Apple claims that wasn't their request.
2. The channels won't be closed.
3. Telegram won't be removed from the App Store.
"Apple forces Telegram to Close Channels" makes it sound as though the channels are, in fact, being closed, which isn't the case.
It's one thing to call Apple out on their behavior here, but it's another matter entirely to scare users into thinking that the channels will be deleted--they won't, assuming you're not on iOS. If you're in one of those channels, statistically, you're probably not on iOS anyway.
Apple is taking sides with an oppressor by requesting this, that they're choosing to ignore the circumstances - where doxxing otherwise generally is bad because generally it's not reasonable - is not reasonable and lacking nuance.
This doesn’t help Apple’s case at all. Apple is garbage here. It’s an important distinction for protesters, who don’t need to panic as long as they’re not on iOS. However, if a protester were to read this title, they would get the wrong information.
What functional difference is there between banning access to the channel and closing it? And why do Apple have any interest in this, unless they are working at the behest of the Belarusian regime.
Most of the protesters are probably on Android, not iOS. Apple is still terrible for doing this, but there’s a very important distinction from the perspective of the protesters. If they were to read the title of this article, they would probably think they needed to panic, jump ship, and switch to a different platform. That could be critical misinformation.
From the perspective of Silicon Valley, sure, there’s no difference. From the perspective of a demographic that mostly uses Android anyway and is already fighting against fear and misinformation, articles like this can wreak more havoc than Apple’s questionable tactics.
While sympathetic to the protest movement there I'm feeling really conflicted in regards to its contents and if channels for coordination of bullying should be accepted on any platform, whatever the reason.
Telegram doesn’t have to follow the laws of Belarus, whereas Apple who has a presence there, does.
In this situation, Mr Cook, a man running world's most valuable company, decided to part with virtue, and become a man without honour.
It may seem unfair and counterintuitive, but I suspect that there is non-zero portion of Apple users that happily subscribe to this model.
What we're discussing here has strong political flavor, but this isn't the only case of Apple censoring Telegram's content. For example, all even remotely pornographic channels have been banned in native Telegram apps on iOS for years. Somehow Durov is silent about this (probably because you can't score some cheap publicity over defense of pornography).
His double standards aside: parent buying his child an iPhone is probably much happier due to this policy than not.
But I don't use Apple iOS precisely because of their ridiculous grip on the ecosystem - even though from a technical perspective Android is pure garbage.
Reporting spam or harassment doesnt work on Telegram and cease and desist is hard too
But knowing I can just go to Apple instead is definitely a tool