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Comment by paxys | Hacker News Reader

While I'm in favor of the move, wages are just a band-aid fix. The core of the problem is that the premise of the H1B visa itself – extraordinary skill that cannot be found in the US – is complete bullshit. Everyone participating in the program (including the government) knows this, and yet they have to do the entire song and dance of years long approval processes, fake job listings, RFEs and whatnot.

Fix the real problem, and salaries will take care of themselves.

Another problem with simply raising the salary bar is that there are actually professions (especially in healthcare) that genuinely have a talent/supply gap. A small hospital in the midwest, however, isn't going to be able to compete with a hotshot SF startup with unlimited venture funding to throw at foreign hires.

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Yes and no.

Most companies I see using H1-Bs are startups looking for people to get technical work done as cheaply as possible. These are the same people who give employees 0.1% of a series A company and whine about how there's a "skill shortage".

When in truth, there is no "shortage" -- it's just that software engineering is one of the only (somewhat) high-end careers subject to absolutely no credentialing whatsoever, meaning, if you can get someone here (to the US) and they can do the work, great, they're hired.

Contrast this to the absurd coddling present in other professions. Doctors, dentists, lawyers, architects, etc. have massive barriers keeping people out, competition down, and in the end, prices of their services up.

It blows my mind what middling lawyers can charge: $300/hr or more for mediocre law work for my California HOA. These people have zero side projects, don't study a minute out of work, and work strict 8-hour days, with the expectation of earning $250k/yr or more mid-career. This is what the cream of the crop in our field earns (Google SWEs making 350k or so). The cream of the crop for layers make millions/year at places like Cravath or Orrick billing $1000/hr or more. Even my wife, an architect, is now billing out at $250/hr.

It blows my mind how underpaid software developers are, given how difficult the work, and the working conditions are, compared to other similarly demanding fields in terms of professional education, and raw intellectual horsepower required to do the job. A typical H1-B can be productive a few months after a good software education anywhere in the world, assuming they speak passable English. My best friend's sister-in-law, an Indian dentist, had to retake the last year of dental school before she could touch a single tooth in the US.

The biggest winners from the H1-B regime are high-skilled professionals in the US. Low-end labor doesn't care about any of this. They work for cash, and still pay sales and property tax (through rent) just like the rest of us, and all for absolutely zero government benefits.

As someone who worked in Architecture first, you’re way wrong about at least that profession. SWEs make a LOT more than Architects. My first job as an entry level SWE was 2x more than I ever made as an architect.

Really? What if you need a bunch of translation/localization work done. America has a shortage of people who are bilingually fluent and have the engineering skill, in many of the needed cultures and languages.

Do you think companies are going to go to war bidding up salaries for a tiny number of qualified American candidates who can do this work, or are they going to outsource to overseas firms that can do the work?

So then the question is, do you want this work being done here, in America, paying taxes here, or do you want some consulting company in Asia or Eastern Europe to get the money?

It's not "extraordinary skill that cannot be found in the US" though, it's for skills for which there is a shortage in your market, similar to the subclass 189 visa here in Australia.

When you say "extraordinary skill" you are probably thinking about the O-1 visa (which is similar to the Australian subclass 124).

> extraordinary skill that cannot be found in the US

You're thinking of the O-1. The H-1B is a specialty occupation visa, not an "extraordinary skill" visa.

I take it you've never tried to hire experienced software engineers. The supply is significantly below demand.

At what cost? $50/hr?

I am on H1B (bay area last 4 years, Atlanta 6 years) and my total compensation is significantly higher than that.

Perhaps that view says more about the hiring process than it does about the available labor pool.

What are you paying and do you post that information on your job description? I am a software engineer with 5 years of experience in Chicago IL and am open to new opportunities. What would you offer me?

I take it you want to hire Andrew Ng for $10 an hour. There's a shortage of those people yes, but that's by design.

The H1-B program prevents the tech industry from developing its own domestic supply of skilled engineers by shutting out domestic applicants for entry level positions. Remove H1-B's from the equation and the labor market will move back to equilibrium.

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