For people that work in any of these cities, how have you been enjoying it? What sort of tech companies are around? What do the job interviews and salaries out there look like?
Job interviews are pretty straightforward. Nothing like the FAANG grind. Salaries are $80K fresh out of college. Surpassing $200k is doable at places like Salesforce, Eli Lilly, etc..
Lots of "routine" programming jobs are in the $100-$140k range going from Senior to Staff. Higher levels of IC and management of course go up from there.
A nice house costs $200k.
If you wanted a house in a more trendy, downtown neighborhood: https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1627-Fletc...
I think this is changing (for the higher) in some low cost of living areas (although I can't speak for the midwest) as tech talent moves out of SF. My good friend just got a $120k offer for a pretty "routine" new grad job.
e: for clarity
This was an offer in North Carolina for a testing role, but I'd rather not share the company without asking her.
Meanwhile, SWE comp at FANG can end up closer to $350k for senior engineers and $600k for staff positions. With a lot of these companies now offering permanent remote work, even a 50% pay cut is better than the local offerings.
I think once remote work really starts in full swing, we'll see wages in remote regions rise as companies realize that they are essentially negotiating with the same people, who still expect to be paid highly for their work.
Price is based on supply and demand curves, and cost of living isn't directly a causal factor. If it is true that FAANG can keep printing money while hiring people willing to accept lower pay, then that will happen but it will be because the FAANG's prospective supply of labor would have increased.
Disagree - I think that the reality is that most of those in the US who are qualified are already living on the West coast. People underestimate the entry barriers to tech because they are already good at tech.
Salaries will fall as more Gen Z (grew up with tech) enter the labor market, but I'm already seeing higher offers in LCOL areas because the tech labor market remains tight in tech right now.
I've got a friend who is a remote L6 solutions architect with AWS. His compensation is decidedly west coast: ~30% annual bonus and insane RSU grants, while his base is near or below mine. Stock offerings are atypical in the companies in many of these areas, and 30% bonus is unheard of for technical people.
So while LCOL areas may have better base comp, people expecting six figures worth of stock grants aren't going to bite.
What that means I'm not smart enough to know. :)
I live & work in one of these cities and have my entire career. I currently work in a midsized tech company but my experiences and numbers hold with my previous work at a non-tech enterprise.
In general, the numbers I see:
* Individual contributor salaries range from 80k to 120k, with a bonus structure from 6%-8% annually.
* Upper-tier ICs and people managers tend to be around 110k-145k with 8-10% bonuses
Currently as a principal engineer I make ~$165k with a 12% annual bonus target. Previously as an enterprise architect I was on around ~$155k with a 15% bonus. A friend at a senior director level is around $185k and I'm not sure about the bonus but I know it is 15%+.
There are a variety of tech companies in the area, but many jobs are tech jobs at a "non-tech company": banking, insurance, healthcare, manufacturing. Even then, don't underestimate the size and scope of what is done; my last job had an IT department of around 200 and was responsible for running a ton of complex systems.
You'll probably skew towards midsized companies to large enterprises. While there are some regional startup incubators you just don't have the same access to capital that you do in the Bay area.
It's ludicrously affordable to live here:
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/43-Fairfie...
I could find a similar home for around $75k.
There's plenty of cultural activities, dining, nightlife - I couldn't be happier.
The biggest risk is likely the limited amount of "slots at the top": there are probably at most a few dozen top-tier positions to fill in this market, so job changes have to be carefully considered and planned.
This article is misleading about tech jobs, though. They're tech roles at non-tech companies. Even our local unicorns are companies like ShipBob (great co, to be clear, just not that _sexy_).
Personally, I strongly prefer this to the hustle and bustle of the big and expensive cities - that's my preference though, and I know that it's not for everyone.
The cost of living is quite low, and it's routinely ranked very highly on the "good places to live" lists that pop up periodically.
In New York, I would go to topic-focused programming meetups at Facebook's NYC headquarters and there would be over 200 people there, meeting after meeting. There's nothing like that here. The local university has some tech meetups, and there are some in the city center, but they look nothing like in New York. Due to Covid, I have not gone to any (and they seem to be cancelled any how).
Right now here, there are a handful of job openings that I am well-qualified for, but I can count them on one hand. In New York there are more job openings I could go in for. It's one of the biggest drawbacks in terms of a long term future here.
I have friends in the Phoenix metro area. The Phoenix metro area is larger than the Bay area metro area population wise, but the tech scene is smaller, and it small enough that everyone seems to know each other.
One nice thing in 2000 is as the dot-coms imploded, the job market in New York was not as heavily impacted as the Bay Area market. I started 2000 working for a startup that had IPO'd and ended it working for an investment bank. My salary was bumped up slightly, whereas some more junior people I knew in the Bay Area were laid off as their startups went bust and had trouble finding jobs out there as the market was flooded with junior or even mid-level talent.
I do know good, senior people who are tied to this area for one reason or another, who have moved around the handful of companies that are here. There are only a few big companies here employing a lot of programmers, so just like Phoenix, everybody seems to know each other here. When people are unhappy at my company, they contact former co-workers who moved to one of the other big companies and get pulled into their teams at their companies.
There aren't many "tech" companies, you're working for a Fortune 1000 company in their IT department usually here. Or a smaller company, although startup funding is not fantastic here.
I am not capable of senior level pay on my current stack yet, and a nice, large apartment in a nice, convenient neighborhood is cheaper than in NYC (although not incredibly cheaper). So I don't have much to complain on the salary front. But as it stands, there are less openings on the job market locally, and as I become more senior, it might even feel more constrained. Local companies have trouble attracting and retaining senior talent, and there is a reason for that. My company has been changing compensations rates around and making other changes in order to lure more talent.
Primarily due to the smaller number of job openings locally I don't see much of a long term future here outside of my current company. If I ever decide to look around, it will probably be in New York City or in the Bay Area. And my reasons for going back to New York City would include personal ones. Although one very good young programmer I know said he would prefer New York over San Francisco as he thinks New York would have more of a nightlife etc.
Seriously. Please stay in your coastal enclave. It's terrible here :)