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Comment by edw519 | Hacker News Reader

No. I am too.

I have commented before on how offensive posts like this are for so many reasons. It ususally turns out to be me against the world. So I don't even bother anymore.

But now that I saw your question, I decided to throw my 2 cents in (again).

AFAIC, with few exceptions, everything we do is a marathon, not a sprint. So using crutches for sprints is, at best, myoptic. Any stimulant, I don't care which (food, drugs, etc.) has another side, i.e., what goes up must go down. One of the commenters on OP's site talks about this much better than I can.

I really don't care what anyone does in private. But setting aside all the ethical, medical, and legal considerations, here is my biggest concern: Lots of people come to this site to learn and exchange; I'd hate to have them walk away with the idea than drugs are a good idea for their startup, just from the feedback of their peers. That's irresponsible.

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It sounds less awful than binging on coffee. Like it or not, sometimes a lot of work has to be done in a short period of time.

I don't know why some people have such an aversion to tweaking the biochemical machine whichh they inhabit, except of course with caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol, all of which are harmful and less effective for their intended purpose than manufactured drugs.

I don't think any drug has done as much damage to my body as the intense stress that I suffer from being unable to focus on a project unless against a deadline and the attempts to complete massive amounts of work overnight wit a fuzzy-headed caffeine-fueled incompetence.

I know I sounds dangerous and iconoclastic here, but I think many people would share my point of view if they weren't conditioned since they were 5-years-old with "drugs are bad" propaganda in their schools.

An opposite view is that people don't like drugs because they see so many kids today being prescribed them like candy and it turns out sometimes thats not good for them. "Drugs are good" can often do just as much harm.

      I have commented before on how offensive posts like this are for so many reasons

It's one thing to disagree, its another thing entirely to claim this post is offensive.

Plenty of people don't drink alcohol, or coffee, because they believe (with plenty of reason) that its not good for them overall. That's a choice they're empowered to make. But to be offended by people who do drink coffee, or do drink alcohol, is silly. If you let the personal decisions of the rest of the world offend you so easily, you'll never get anything done with your own life.

The same logic applies here. Nobody is, for example, advocating that you must take drugs to succeed in your startup. It's certainly interesting to me (and probably others) to know to what extent other people go to try and get an edge.

At the risk of misinterpreting edw myself, I think what he is getting at is not at all that he finds people who use (or as the case may be) Provigil or caffeine or what have you offensive.

Rather, it is that he finds it offensive that posts that seem to glorify or encourage such behavior (the OP certainly hints at that with the closing bit) end up so high on the main page and, in his mind, take away from more valuable discourse.

Personally I agree that this particular post is more news than not, though the recent post about the Liberal Arts PhD who was advocating marijuana use was borderline at best.

>It usually turns out to be me against the world. So I don't even bother anymore.

Funny, it turns out the same way when I am advocating the other way. :) Generally when either of us disagrees with the board about this issue, the advocates for the other side come out in mass because they feel strongly one way or the other.

Drugs are indeed bad in the average case, but some people don't have the mental willpower or brain chemistry to get by in an unenhanced state. The medical diagnosis for this would be ADHD. The problem and controversy is that the treatment for ADHD is drugs that enhance the performance of absolutely everyone which is why ADHD is so overdiagnosed.

I think I can see why it turns into "you vs the world". Can you back up those broad claims?

Can you back up those broad claims?

What broad claims?

I think I can see why it turns into "you vs the world".

Sounds pretty much like you're making a "claim" yourself. Care to back up what you "see" with a little data?

>What broad claims?

>Any stimulant, I don't care which (food, drugs, etc.) has another side, i.e., what goes up must go down.

It's not a broad claim. It's common knowledge. Ask any doctor. Or scientist. Perhaps you can email the question to this guy

http://www.drfuhrman.com/

and maybe even learn something else in the process.

I'm not wasting any more time debating non-hacker issues here at hacker news. There are several other excellent threads directly related to hacker news. Let's talk about those over there. This is my last comment in this thread.

It becomes a broad claim due to the words "Any stimulant, I don't care which".

Many common stimulants (e.g., amphetamines) have such an effect. To extend the claim to "any stimulant, I don't care which" is a broad claim. There is no fundamental reason why every stimulant should have a down side (no "conservation of energy" law for human wakefulness). At this point, I'd say the jury is still out on the side effects of provigil.

By the way, I do consider this to be hacker news. Startup founders hacking their own bodies? I think that's interesting to hackers.

"Startup founders hacking their own bodies?"

Heh, interesting way to put it - kudos.

So with that in mind - I will buy a beer for the first person who successfully manages to integrate their bodily functions with Twitter :)

If you fart (for example, disgusting thought, but just putting the idea out there for kicks) how intriguing would it be for hundreds or thousands of people around the world to know about it instantly?

You could be in an office in New York, let one rip and people in Madrid, Melbourne, Mumbai (or some other city starting with M) would know about it.

Newton's Third Law :)

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