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Comment by tgsovlerkhgsel | Hacker News Reader

The EU actually attempted to do the right thing when regulating dishwashers, and it actually made rules that it has to not just be efficient, but also get the dishes to a certain cleanliness standard.

Either their standard was too lenient or their testing procedure unrealistic though, because my dishwasher has the "EU mode" (which has to be selected by default by law), and then 4 other modes that will actually clean the dishes.

I'm surprised that the manufacturers didn't label the EU mode as such to make clear to customers who they have to thank for that.

Such experiences sour consumers for future eco initiatives (compare e.g. early CFLs and LEDs leading to people hoarding incandescent bulbs and refusing to touch the technology to this day).

Vacuum cleaners are the EU's most recent victim.

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I know it's anecdata, but in my brand new Bosch dishwasher the "EU" mode is clearly the selected by default ECO mode - and yeah, it takes 3.5 hours, but it uses about 1kWh of energy and only 9 litres of water. And I have never, not even once, had it not clean something perfectly. And I've been using it on burnt oven trays and dishes stained with egg or cheese based meals - it's perfect every time. If I do need dishes back quickly, then I just press "VarioSpeed" and the same program is done in an hour - with the same results.

It must be a quality thing I guess? Cheaper/worse dishwasher will never clean dishes as well as a better one without using least efficient programs.

And what's wrong with vacuums? I got the good old Henry hoover(if you're in UK you might know the brand) just a year ago and it's as good as ever.

I also have a Bosch dishwasher with the ECO mode. It cleans basically everything I put in there, even years of grime on my kitchen exhaust fan.

It’s quiet too, which I love.

> Either their standard was too lenient or their testing procedure unrealistic though, because my dishwasher has the "EU mode" (which has to be selected by default by law), and then 4 other modes that will actually clean the dishes.

In the US these newish dishwashers drive me crazy. They don’t have a heating element on the bottom (efficient!) and anything plastic is absolutely dripping wet, even after it’s been drying overnight (or rather, actively drying for a couple hours and then just sitting there). You’re supposed to top them up CONSTANTLY with Jet Dry (drying agent), but it barely does anything. Parent was spot on in describing the efficiency gains as being a result of not doing the damn job.

> You’re supposed to top them up CONSTANTLY with Jet Dry

THANK YOU, I had no idea why my dish washer seems to go through jetdry like it was water!

What's jet dry? Literally never heard about the term.

For anyone else who was confused - it seems to be a different name for rinse aid.

It is a surfactant (breaks surface tension). I am not an American and I had to Google it a few months ago to figure out what it was. I think it is avaliable here in New Zealand but I have never ever seen anyone use it.

Yeah, it's called rinse aid elsewhere - I'm surprised anyone still uses it, as multitabs have replaced all the separate detergents used(remember having to add salt to your dishwasher?). In fact my dishwasher has a separate setting that you need to enable if you aren't using multitabs, then it will start consuming rinse aid from a separate container. By default it doesn't use any.

I think this depends on the model as we just had to replace our dish washer and we got one without the heating element and it does a better job drying than our previous one with the heating element.

Also they still make both and the models with the heating element aren't hard to find.

> anything plastic is absolutely dripping wet, even after it’s been drying overnight (or rather, actively drying for a couple hours and then just sitting there)

How is that possible? Even when I hand wash plastic items they'll usually dry within a few hours, at worst overnight.

Because the water stays on these items, the inside of the dishwasher stays very humid, and basically none of the moisture can actually dissipate. So unless you leave the dishwasher cracked half-open after its done, all your plastic items end up still wet the next day. And even if you do leave it half-open, without active circulation, it can still take a very long time to dry items.

Our solution: Put away the dry porcelain/glass/stoneware pieces, and let the plastic cups and containers dry in a drying rack.

This is why I will never ever again have another Bosch dishwasher. I don’t care what Consumer Reports says about it being the quietest dishwasher and therefore the best, it doesn’t fucking get the dishes clean and then properly dry.

Never ever again.

I have the exact opposite experience. Got the Bosch Series 6 dishwasher few months ago and it's the best dishwasher I've ever had. Everything is always perfectly clean no matter which program I pick, and if you select "Extra Dry" then everything is actually dry - apparently it's the moisture absorbing zeolite that they are using.

This is more or less what I do -- I leave the door cracked open for an hour or two, and then put away all the actually dry dishes. Everything else goes into the drying rack for a finishing dry.

The biggest problem with this is some of the not dry items have so much water on them they end up getting everything wet again when you even so much as slide out the dishwasher racks.

But mine is a cheap samsung dishwasher provided by the landlord, so I don't expect it to be terribly effective. Mainly I use the dishwasher when I forgot to do the dishes and need to start cooking and need the sink. It's basically an overflow sink for me.

Ahhh, yeah, I do crack the dishwasher open a bit after it's done to let the steam out and get some drier air in there. I -- perhaps incorrectly -- assumed this was a normal thing to do!

Just use white vinegar instead of jetdry. It works as well and is much cheaper.

I've read this is bad for the seals. Use citric acid (the main component of jetdry) dissolved in water instead. Haven't tested this effect but it's plausible, given that acetic acid is itself a solvent and can diffuse into some rubbers.

They certainly are going the right direction but manufacturers will always find a way to cheat. E.g. my Samsung washer (never again!) has an eco mode that runs 4 1/2h. No idea what it's doing during that time, but I guess it maximises on some criteria that are regulated. It would be absurd to prohibit other modes, so they exist and we use them fairly often as we just want to get laundry done...

On vacuum cleaners - i would hazard a guess that you are in the UK where this has been a major talking point e.g. during the brexit referendum. Truth is that there are plenty of studies showing that new vacuums are as good as old ones and just use less energy. Regulating vacuums was a huge success in that sense. Of course if you get a 40£ tesco vacuum they fared better before they were obliged to try and be efficient, but by a proper brand and you shouldn't notice any difference (except where the brand maybe decided to reduce cost e.g. Dyson has gone downhill for years and recently decided to move HQ to Singapore...).

I mean, you can legislate/regulate whatever you want, but if that's not realistically (physically and economically) attainable then you'll get wink-wink-nudge-nudge "compliance". See the VW cheating scandal.

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