Ask HN: Should I move to London and open an business (as a founder from EU)? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Should I move to London and open an business (as a founder from EU)?

4 pointsthrow92015 comments

I was planning to move to London and open a ltd company in the UK but the pandemic happened. Now I don't know when I'm going to be able to do that (considering we're in the middle of the pandemic) or if it's a good idea anymore. Brexit, IR35, London being expensive and Covid in the UK.. the insecurity adds up. I'm reading that many people are moving out of (or have already left) London due to the pandemic. I'm from a EU country that doesn't have a good ecosystem for entrepreneurship and I want to leave the country for personal reasons as well. My idea was to be in London for at least 6 months per year (for taxation reasons). After December 2020 it will also become harder to open an Ltd as a EU resident because of Brexit. From what I've read (and I've read quite a lot) it is going to be a problem if where you reside is different from where the company is located. So I'm trying to see where to move that is helpful to the business but also somewhere I like living.

My second option was Berlin and opening a UG, but I'm reading of many hurdles one has to jump with a German company. Harder to close if things don't go well, more expensive to operate, more regulations to adhere to, more bureaucratic processes etc. I've thought of Paris as well but I've read there's a lot of bureaucracy/hurdles that makes things hard for business owners.

TLDR; It seems that UK ltd is way more straightforward and the ecosystem and taxation is easier to understand (documents in English certainly help). On the other hand many people are saying you shouldn't found a company in the UK right now because of all the aforementioned reasons.

Any advice?

I can't say if you should do this or not but here's how I did it:

* Fly to London, rent a room / place

* Make an appointment to get a NI Number: https://www.gov.uk/apply-national-insurance-number

* Setup a limited company with accountants, e.g: https://www.crunch.co.uk/

* Open a personal and business bank account, e.g. with Revolut or TransferWise

With a combination of low salary and issuing dividends your personal tax liability will be something like 5% on £50,000 of income (not counting corporation tax which is currently 19%), if you have a spouse or civil partner it's even better...but watch out for tax payments on account:

https://www.gov.uk/understand-self-assessment-bill/payments-...

In my opinion, the UK is a great place to do business in Europe if you're working remotely for clients all over the world and London is a great place to live too (if you don't mind the high housing prices with an income that can support it).

Just do it ASAP before Brexit, and apply to the EU Settlement Scheme: https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families

If you change your mind later, you can always close your company and move away but getting a visa and moving here after Brexit will probably be a bit more complex.

Thanks for the info!

If I get pre-settled status, does that mean I will have the right to work after January 2020?

  With a combination of low salary and issuing dividends your personal tax liability will be something like 5% on £50,000 of income

Can you elaborate on this?

No worries.

You can stay in the UK for a further 5 years from the date you get pre-settled status and the deadline for applying is 30 June 2021, as long as you were living in the UK before 31 December 2020.

The settlement scheme is basically just a mobile app for you to take a selfie, scan the tag in your passport using NFC and answer a few questions like "Are you currently in the UK?", "How many years have you been living here?", "What's your NI Number?" ..they will then check your employment records electronically.

So apply after you get your NI No. by letter and your limited company is setup. You will usually get a decision a few weeks later which is just an email, explaining how you can prove your status online to others (like landlords or employers) if needed.

Regarding taxes, google for "optimal directors salary and dividends uk" and you will find loads of articles by accountants explaining the how and why in detail.

Living in London might just be cheaper or similar as Berlin after tax savings. Because I believe in Germany, taking profits out of your company will incur an additional 25% personal tax whereas in the UK, dividends are only taxed at 7.5% up to a threshold:

https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-dividends

But don't take my word for it, the German tax system looks like a nightmare.

If you have any other questions let me know.

Unless you specifically need the funding/networking infrastructure in London, try Belfast and open your UK company there.

Much lower cost of living, decent tech community.

Most importantly, you'll be able to drive to the EU in less than an hour if for any reason you physically need to be in EU jurisdiction.

It'll always be in both the EU and the UKs interest to ensure smooth times between the North and the South here, both in terms of free movement and conducting business. The UK is trying to play hardball, but their US trade agreement relies on not upsetting the balance here on a bipartisan basis in the US.

In addition, you'll have regular flights available from Belfast to London should you need it, or you can be in Dublin airport in about 90 minutes if you need more far reaching links. (Naturally this is more useful when covid is less of an issue)

Hope that helps.

Many EU tax systems are available in English, including countries you might not expect like the Netherlands, Finland, Lithuania etc. I know of an American that doesn't have any problem doing business in Lithuania for instance. It's not particularly harder, however some EU tax systems are much better than others.

The UK will no longer be part of the EEA after Brexit. Iceland, Norway, Swiss are part of the EEA. EEA gives you access to the market as an EEA citizen. That means for the UK you will have to deal with visa and the problems that come along with it, if you opt for UK.

If you move your company, you should move to. But EU is mostly the same, not like you move to the 3rd world. Some countries have a better brand name than others, but don't be blinded by brand name.

Because you should live there, you need to consider more than taxation, like perhaps crime rate: https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2...

Talk with accountants. Online information is often old or incomplete.

Really depends on what you want to do. For most things, I'd say forget London. Brexit means Brexit.

Do consider Berlin. Yes, it's more bureaucratic, but depending on what you'll do you'll have access to a much larger market. Operating a business is more expensive than London, but cost of living is much cheaper and QoL arguably better.

However, you should probably be willing to learn some German.

The thing is that even with Brexit, I think London still has a larger pool of talent compared to Berlin.

Berlin rents have gone up as well (still less expensive than London).

My impression is that UK is more entrepreneur/self-employed friendly than Germany.

I'd like to continue consulting and maybe try a SaaS product as well.

Somewhat random suggestions to follow but I've been researching this a lot myself. I'm personally looking for an EU country with a low corporate tax rate and zero capital gains tax (for early retirement). I've narrowed that down to Cyprus, Switzerland, Georgia, Portugal and Poland.

Switzerland is probably the winner but it is much higher COL (though you can get San Francisco salary there for a much better quality of life).

I actually currently live in Berlin now and I have to admit that the more I research, the more I find that Germany isn't so bad of an option at all. If you want children/family in the future, Germany has much better benefits than Switzerland.

I’m not sure how things work in the EU/UK, but wouldn’t it make sense to make sure you have a viable product before moving for the ease of setting up a company? In the US, my partner and I had to think about the overhead/operations/regulatory part of the business maybe once a quarter. It was a pain, but in the grand scheme of things, it was so inconsequential to the entire picture. This reminds me of the usual questions around what new and unfamiliar technology one should pick when creating a new startup when the answer is really just sticking with what you know to get your product complete and in front of customers (who don’t magically appear, either, btw).

For me : No. In the past, I did create a company too early : - Product not finished. - Noproduct market fit. idiotic : Now I know it.

If I create a company now, it is because two clients have paid me money.

How are you funding your company? Any specific reason why you have chosen London rather than some other part of the UK?

I'm a consultant, working remotely for clients all over the world.

I'd like to live in London (at least before the pandemic happened), no other reason.

I think an Irish ltd is the next best thing.

Estonia is much more straightforward and cheaper. You can also do everything from the comfort of your home. Why even consider other options? :-)

I don't plan to move to Estonia so opening a company there is not a viable option. Your remote company can be considered (and taxed as) a local company if you don't live there more than 183 days.

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