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Comment by ahi | Hacker News Reader

Dishwashers are my pet peeve. Visiting family, they all have these dish rinsers that can't actually clean dirty dishes so we hand wash everything then put them in? I have a dishwasher from the 80s that actually washes dishes. I don't think I will replace it when it dies with a new one. Granted, it may never die since they used to make them last too.

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It's that there's a lot of variation in dishwasher quality.

I used to live in an apartment with a landlord-installed $200 cheapie dishwashers that never worked.

Then I moved to an apartment without a dishwasher, so I bought a $500 one that I could plug into the sink. Worked much better.

After that apartment, I moved into one that had the same dishwasher that I bought, but installed. Worked great! Then I moved into another apartment with a cheapie dishwasher that was so loud I'd only run it when I left.

Anyway, the lesson is that you need to be a savvy consumer... And skip the cheapest models!

The expensive ones don't work that well either. My kitchenaid cost $1k and it sucks. Maybe a Miele or Bosch will work better.. they are more but honestly I just want one that cleans reliably.

New toilets are awful.. just terrible.

Just purchased a 30 year old house... with older plumbing. Ugly color, but compared to the newer ones we put into our former house - they work incredibly well when sinking the Bismarck.

My relatively new Bosch (about 2.5 years old) cleans better than any dishwasher I can remember having. And it's near-silent, too.

New models can be good!

Yeah I think Bosch is the better choice. What model?

I got the 500 version based on this article from Wirecutter. Works well, but does require that we leave the door open for a while to let the plastic dry. Silent though. Most of the time, I can only tell it is running by the light on the ground.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/the-best-dishwash...

I _just_ ordered a Bosch 500 series because my (barely 4 year old) GE model died over the weekend. I was told by a friend who owns the same Bosch model that they go through a lot of Jet Dry, though... But if it actually cleans well and doesn't break in a few years I'll be happy.

Had mine 6 years. It doesn't "need" the jet dry, but it certainly helps.

Also just bought the same model, hoping to replace a terrible Whirlpool.

Whatever Bosch you get, avoid the ones with membrane buttons for the controls. I have one and it is horrible. The lettering is completely worn off, the buttons are not sensitive, and you have to keep pressure on them for more than a second to register your touch.

They have otherwise nearly identical models with physical buttons. If I were buying it over again, I would definitely get one of those.

My parents had bad luck with Bosch. It didn't clean, and then it leaked.

But the Ikea dishwasher we bought, it was loud but it worked

Ikea's are mostly Whirlpools I believe... Whirlpools tend to be a little more reliable but noisier.

I never imagined I would have any feelings for an appliance, but I love my Bosch (800 series and it was just under $1K; third rack is great as well).

My Bosch dishwashers were less than $1k and work great. I put one in my old house, and liked it so much that, when I moved and had to pick out another, I just bought the same one!

> so loud I'd only run it when I left.

I lived in a studio apartment with this kind of dishwasher for five years.

I refused to run it since it was so obnoxious.

Now I just treat the dishwasher as a drying rack. Works great.

a cheapie dishwasher that was so loud I'd only run it when I left

I'm not sure that's a good idea.

I had a dishwasher that had the failure described in the article linked below. The electronics circuitry (top of door) caught fire. Opening the door didn't stop the smoke, and also caused water to spew uncontrollably into the kitchen.

Fortunately I made a quick dash out to the garage and turned off the breaker so there was no damage to the kitchen.

But if I wasn't home .... what would have happened? If we were all sleeping upstairs while the fire was downstairs .... what would have happened?

https://www.consumerreports.org/dishwashers/whirlpool-settle...

There are smoke alarms for that.

Are you in the USA? Here in the UK I don't think I have ever seen a dish rinser! We have dishwashers aplenty. The one issue is that if you think the dishwasher is a food disposal unit, you'll likely clog it up. Some people put dishes in with lumps of food on them, or don't put salt in the dishwasher (depends on the tablets you use) and the lifespan of the dishwasher will be impacted.

When my old one failed to drain and filled up, I was amazed at how much water came out of it when I shimmy'd it to the back door and released the kraken over the back garden. It was like a tsunami.

I think "dish rinser" was meant as a put-down for "bad dishwasher" — I live in the US and I haven't heard of "dish rinsers" either.

Commercial dishwashers are better described are just sterilizers and would be called dish risers if you don't put clean dishes in. They work fast to get dishes ready for safe reuse.

Anyone who cares about the environment does not use a dishwasher.

I'd need to see some estimates for handwashing, but it looks like a modern dishwasher uses 4-6gal (15-23l) of water[1]. That's about 1/10th of a bath (sure, if you're conserving water and energy you take showers instead, so it's about 1/3 of a shower).

1: https://www.consumerreports.org/dishwashers/energy-efficient...

It's not just the power and water use, but the quite harsh and caustic nature of the dishwasher detergent that is a concern in some areas

I would imagine dishwashing water use varies a lot depending on habits. I have refined my dishwashing over the years to this procedure:

0. use aerating faucet head to increase spread of water.

1. Short splash of cold water to remove stuck-on food, letting it sit if needed.

2. Wash with detergent on wet sponge, no added water.

3. Rinse with cold water, low water volume, with stacked dishes below faucet so that water from the rinse is rinsing dishes below as well.

I've never measured how much water is used, but I would think that it's fairly competitive against a dishwasher.

The Miele dishwasher I used to have in my old flat used around 7 litres per wash. My current, not quite as fancy one, uses around 9 litres.

That's like just over a minute of the tap being on full blast for an aerated tap.

I am sure you could compete with that if you really tried, but from what I've seen a lot of people simply leave the tap on for the majority of the time they are washing the dishes.

Yeah, I had to break myself of the habit of leaving the water running. When I was younger and less patient, I would soap and rinse each item in sequence, so that I got the sense that I was making progress. But as I got older, I switched to batching the soaping and rinsing as it is more efficient that way.

Also, an additional difference between handwashing and using a dishwasher is the environmental impact of the manufacturing of the dishwasher, if the main concern is the environment. If the main reason is reducing work, then the dishwasher comes out ahead.

Or do it like a normal human: fill the sink with hot water and a tiny bit of detergent, wash glasses and less greasy things first and for later dirty items (e.g. frying pan) rinse them off at the end. If you're doing a big load and the water is already cold/dirty just drain and fill the sink a second time. Saves time, saves water and detergent, no splashing, ...

I actually don't recall ever seeing a human do dishes that way except on TV. I'm also not sure that it saves water if you are filling the sink and then still using water to rinse the dishes, at least as compared with my method.

Finally, there has been very few times where it has been necessary for me to use hot water instead of cold. Unless I had burned the food, almost everything will come off after a good soak and scrub, even in cold water.

> I actually don't recall ever seeing a human do dishes that way except on TV.

I have an unusual interest in this topic. I grew up in the UK, and that's just how people do the dishes. Or at least, the people in my orbit. So when I see that on TV, it's completely normal.

But, I now live in Mexico and everybody uses some variation of your method (again, everybody with a "people I've observed washing the dishes" qualifier). I find it completely bizarre.

I got a miele recently and it uses 1.2kwhr and 12L of water if it's completely packed or down to 6L of water if it's relatively clean dishes. over time I think it uses way less energy and water than manual washing would ever achieve.

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