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Comment by dkdk8283 | Hacker News Reader

I used the microsoft natural keyboard for years and now the kinesis freestyle. I don’t know why split keyboards aren’t more popular. Proper ergonomics are important or your career could be interrupted due to RSI.

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The MS ones are unsung heros here.

There's way too much emphasis on the mechanical switches among the community.

I got infatuated with mechanical keyboards with Cherry MX switches about 10-12 years ago and gave myself RSI from using them.

I kept trying different ones assuming it was the design of the keyboard.. there was so much non-scientific belief that mechanical switches are better for RSI that I had a huge blind spot. I went through Das Keyboard, Kinesis, Truly Ergonomic, and a bunch of others and it never would go away.

When I finally ditched the mechanical switches it went away... the MS keyboards seem to be the cheapest/easiest to get that have nice non-mechanical switches and work for me.

No problems for years now using the MS ones.

The boutique manufacturers selling mechanical switch keyboards market them as better for RSI without much proof meanwhile for some of us the longer travel on those switches might actually be the cause.

I started out using Microsoft Natural keyboards in the 90s. Ergonomic pain using straight keyboards at work brought me back to them in the 2010s. The Sculpt (wireless) is really wonderful.

Favorite keyboard ever for me. (<-- that sentence, and this one, typed on a Sculpt. Thank you, unknown engineers.)

I do love the sculpt but they tend to die within a couple of years. I went through two of them before switching to something more durable. The build quality is just bad - many times my computer was behaving weirdly, traced to one of the function keys being stuck down (this also manifested as the keyboard eating new batteries within a couple of days).

This is my exact thought. I love it, but I'm about to retire my second one. It's almost worth just paying the price for a new one every couple of years though. I have two of the older Microsoft Natural keyboards from decades ago that I periodically switch to and they will probably last another 20 years.

I've got two MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000s in my cupboard. I'm currently on a Sculpt, but much preferred the 4000s. Unfortunately I uncovered their weakness - humidity.

I work from home with evaporative cooling over summer.

The first unit lasted a few years, but died on a humid summer day. Next one only lasted 12 months, again dying on a humid summer day.

First unit is irrecoverably dead. The second would come back to life after pulling it apart and cleaning with isopropyl alcohol, then die again a few days later (during summer). Issue is that the humidity seems to short the key matrix. If not careful it makes for some awkward typing mistakes.

The Sculpt seems a bit more resilient to humidity.

Yes, the MS Naturals absolutely dissolve when exposed to water. I've destroyed at least a half-dozen over my lifetime by spilling small amounts of water on them. Only takes one drop to destroy some keys. Just after I finished high school, in the mid-2000s, I stocked up and bought four of them. Two of them have been wrecked since then, but the other two are still going strong. Still haven't seen a keyboard that I want to replace them with, but at some point, these will give up the ghost and I'll have to find something new to try.

Logitech makes a very similar keyboard now and I love it (I had to return a sculpt because the g key would keep getting hung up on the shell).

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZWK2TQT

unless you use the function keys, which are a different size, height and click actuation.

horrid.

I've been using Microsoft Natural keyboards for 20 years now.

I used to suffer terribly with RSI from years of typing on crappy keyboards, with bad posture and not enough breaks.

The Microsoft Natural keyboard has been good to me - I haven't had RSI twinges for 10 years or so now!

I'm typing this on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro which Wikipedia says was introduced in June 1999 - round about the time I got it. I wish it wasn't white as it really shows the dirt, but the media buttons are the best!

I've got two and I switched to the backup recently as my main one got really dirty and I haven't had time to clean it.

The MS Natural 4000 is very good too - I had one of those at work for over 10 years. I did wear the legends off but hey - who needs to see what key you are pressing anyway! Just don't press F-lock by accident as you'll be wondering for ages why your function keys aren't working.

I like the front stand of the 4000 to put the keyboard up a bit at the front. It is very good for encouraging good posture.

(The other thing I did to help with RSI is switch hands with the mouse. It took quite a long time to get used to using the mouse with the left hand but it really made a difference as my right wrist was worse than my left wrist. I'm now ambidextrous with the mouse - the only thing I can't do is draw with the mouse with my left hand!)

I've been using split keyboard my entire career. Started to get pain in my hands during my internships so I bought an MS Ergo keyboard and never looked back.

Used the sculpt for a while which I adore but I had to go back to MS's wired keyboard because the dang thing just doesn't want to stay connected to my Mac.

For me it was the the dropped keys.Suddenly all the keys I was typing would go into ether.

Finally I read somewhere that the USB dongle needs to be close to the top right side of the keyboard.

So I got a USB extender and stuck it close to the right side of my keyboard. No dead keyboard anymore !

I hated that I couldn't find a good, split, long travel (mechanical) keyboard so I built my own. It was a fun, if expensive, learning experience. I use it every day (right now even) so it's worth it.

https://miker.org/building-a-better-keyboard/

Yeah, I've been using MS Naturals for work for years.

Great shape, terrible switches.

If someone would make one with light Topre switches I would pay pretty much any price up to $1000 for it.

I wish there was something readily available like the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 but with mechanical keys. Change the spacebar into two pieces to avoid the need for custom keycaps if you like. Most/all of these fancy split keyboards are missing something, like this Ultimate Hacking Keyboard has no numpad or multimedia keys.

I'm currently using a Varmillo 110% mechanical keyboard that has all the fancy keys (music/mail/calculator/My Computer keys, numpad, and multimedia keys on Fn-pressing the F keys). But it's not ergonomic; there's no curve, wrist rest, or option for a negative tilt.

A lot of mechanical keyboard options are more for show than practicality, which is a bit sad considering mechanical keys are nicer to type on.

Elsewhere in the discussion is mention of the C989 Ergo, which seems to be the closest mass-produced, mechanical keyboard to the MS Natural: https://c9ergo.com/

Thanks, that actually looks great!

I would love a reasonably priced keyboard that was the ms natural keyboard with mechanical switches. (I know people have hacked together their own but I'm not that committed to the keyboard shape.)

I like Topre's switch (actually it's non-contact switch so its feeling is comes from rubber dome) than mechanical but there's no split keyboard available. I wish they or other manufacturers make it.

Cost, size, and learning curve.

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