Scorpion Transforming Computer Chair | Hacker News Reader

Scorpion Transforming Computer Chair

cluvens.net

107 pointsjacquesm105 comments

For anyone liking the idea, but not loving the "scorpion" style. There is (and has been for years) the Emperor by MWE LAB: https://www.mwelab.com/en/emperor.html

The site is offline? Every page returns 404

It worked when I tried it just now, so here's a snapshot of that main page for you:

https://archive.vn/VEDiY

I've owned an Emperor for a little over a year. Here are my thoughts, for anyone who is interested in a chair like this.

I am overall happy with the purchase. I did quite a bit of research between an Emperor and a ZGW (ergoquest.com). I can't say if I would have preferred a ZGW because I've never sat in one. This Scorpion chair I can tell I wouldn't like. I'm not going to comment on how the Scorpion looks like typical Chinese IP theft.

I don't use the zero gravity feature as often as I thought I would. It's mostly upright with some fine tuned adjustments throughout the week to get comfortable. I find it much more comfortable than my previous two chairs: a Steelcase Leap and a Herman Miller Aeron.

Getting inside and upstairs was a bear and I don't look forward to the day I have to move the chair to our forever home. It came partially assembled. I had to fully disassemble - in some cases cutting wires - to break it up into parts that would physically fit in our stairwell. The heaviest part is very awkward to carry. The full disassembly, move and reassembly process took about 20 hours.

From disassembling it, I can say there's quite a bit of thought put into all of it. It's definitely well engineered.

I've customized mine quite a bit. I got a 2'x8" mousepad for the bean-shaped keyboard tray and cut it to fit. I have a 24" Wacom tablet with a Wacom arm mounted to the left arm which allows me to move and rotate around a drawing tablet at will. I had to finagle quite a bit with the monitor mounts as the body of the monitor arm happens to cover the HDMI port on my monitors. Cable management is all very easy to do and leaves room for customization.

Thanks for the writeup! How much did it cost, if you don't mind sharing?

No problem. It cost around $6k.

> I'm not going to comment on how the Scorpion looks like typical Chinese IP theft.

Is that because it's different enough to appeal to an entirely different audience?

> I had to fully disassemble - in some cases cutting wires .. The full disassembly, move and reassembly process took about 20 hours.

I wonder if a competitor could possibly improve this is any way at all?

> > I'm not going to comment on how the Scorpion looks like typical Chinese IP theft. > Is that because it's different enough to appeal to an entirely different audience?

No. It's because Chinese IP theft is so common place that it's hardly worth noting.

> I wonder if a competitor could possibly improve this is any way at all?

I really struck a nerve with you, didn't I?

> No. It's because Chinese IP theft is so common place that it's hardly worth noting.

In this case what exactly is "theft"? The idea of a floating screen chair? That seems to be done by multiple companies, and doesn't appear to be protected IP in anyway.

If you disagree then it's be great to see the trademark, patent, design patent or copyright that has even possibly been violated here.

> I really struck a nerve with you, didn't I?

I appreciated the irony of commenting on something by saying "I'm not going to say something about X"!

You are really hung up on this and I don't understand why.

I would like one of these with rudder pedals instead of a foot rest :-)

and the obligatory archive link following getting trounced by HN.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200613021421/https://www.mwela...

So, the first question that comes to mind: If you put any weight on it, and how horribly would those legs scratch up your hardwood floor (or how bad would the damage to a rug be)? The front feet appear decorative (yet they still drag on the floor), but the second-from-back feet appear to be load bearing (and in one of the videos, it skips out as the chair moves under its own load).

And personally, I'm not overly fond of the fact that the head rest is tied to the positioning of the monitor. It looks like a neck-crick in progress. Also, the angle of the keyboard tray looks off, but I'd need a human model in place to tell for sure.

The rear feet are planted and don't move. The two feet in front of those are decorative and never touch the ground. Next two feet contact the ground and move on rollers, then the front feet are again decorative and don't contact the ground.

You can see those "decorative" feet "skipping" in one of the videos. It's fairly obvious from their behavior that they're touching the ground.

The front feet, given that the joints are flexing while the chair is moving, are also obviously in some sort of contact with the ground.

It looks like the weight is on the back feet (large pads) and the joint on the feet 2nd from the front (rollers).

Agreed - those are the load bearing mechanisms, but the other feet are also moving across the ground (the joints are flexing, or they're getting "stuck" and skipping as the chair moves through its range.

It doesn't take a lot of weight to damage a floor - lateral motion with hard edges is sufficient.

stick a couple of PTFE or UHMWPE gliders on those feet to solve it.

It seems silly to pay so much for a chair with largely cosmetic benefits to have to place PTFE gliders on it to keep it from ruining your home

That leg design looks pretty fragile in comparison with the more reasonable designs from companies like MWE Lab (who, I believe, was the first company to make these kinds of computer chairs) [1]. At least it doesn't look as gamery as Acer's version [2].

[1] https://www.mwelab.com/en/

[2] https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/predator-thronos-air

Christ, the marketing for the "Predator Thronos Air" is extreme:

> Surrounded in metal, the Predator Thronos Air ushers you into its screen-filled paradise, where gaming is nonstop and relaxation comes at the push of a button.

I like the idea of these chairs as far as ergonomics goes, but the whole 'take a seat on your throne and never leave' vibe is a big turn off. I'm not trying to become the lich king here, I just want a smart chair design.

I guess I'm not really the market for this kind of product.

Idiocracy had a fantastic spoof on that theme.

Wall-E had the hilarious floating thrones as well.

Thronos Air - $13,999. Wow, that seems excessive.

The idea that Acer—Acer!!—makes a chair that they think is worth $14k is hilarious.

Guys. Figure out how to make anything with the fit and finish to be worth $1000, first.

This would look perfect in some evil lair.

Seriously now, it would probably look nicer (and family-palatable) with less angles and pointy extrusions. And it seems to take a lot of floor space, which is also a concern.

But I quite like the idea of a reclining computer chair with dual monitor support and an ergonomic armrest. My neck and shoulders have been killing me for the past few months.

Right now is the best time in the last decade to shop for second hand quality office furniture. The work-from-home drive has left lots of offices empty and there are many companies downsizing their office presence and offloading surplus office gear.

Do you have any recommendations on how to find these deals other than monitoring craigslist and local second-hand stores?

I ordered an Aeron stool from Madison Seating [1] while I was setting up my home office a few months back, and the experience was pretty solid. They have good prices, and the shipping was quick and competent. I'm happy to recommend them.

[1] https://www.madisonseating.com/

isnt that the scam website

...not in my experience? Herman Miller apparently sued them back in 2015 for supposedly claiming that refurbs and open-box used stuff was new, but if the complaint was founded then, it certainly isn't any more. I was never in any doubt that I was buying a refurbished chair, and for paying half what a new one would cost, the quality of the chair I got still means that as far as I'm concerned I came out ahead on the deal.

Local version of Ebay for me (marktplaats).

In the Bay Area at least it looks like Facebook Marketplace is the new Craigslist. There have been dozens of these ads on there on any given day in the past few months.

In the Bay Area, what you want is the legendary Aeron Guy, who has a warehouse full of used and repaired Aerons and Aeron parts and will cut you an amazing deal. If you look on craigslist for Aerons, you will likely encounter him.

It’s base footprint is problematic for sure. Ideally, the base footprint should be roughly the same as a regular office chair. The only thing you would have to plan for is budgeting space in front and behind the chair for when you recline.

The space in front of you can be offset by the fact that you won’t need a desk. So really before buying such a chair, you’d want to make sure you can afford the space just behind you.

So sad that this concept is trapped in the gaming world, some decent designers need to follow through with this idea and build something sensible around it.

Toy developers long ago found sharp angles and pointy extrusions appeal to a hunter instinct, in constrast to soft and round features which appeal to a nuturing instinct. On average, young boys prefer predatory traits and young girls prefer nuturing traits. There are some good case studies in otherwise interesting toys that on first glance seemed to be great products but didn't gain market traction due to a failure to appeal to either a nurturing or predatory instinct.

Great article on the topic of Hunter-Nurter fixations in Universal Principles of Design[0]

Funnny enough, almost all the marketing I've seen for gaming computers has basically the same marketing principles as those for toys marketed to young boys.

[0]http://people.sunyit.edu/~lepres/thesis/principles/131_pdfsa...

Do you know if the hunter-nurture interpretation was introduced elsewhere? This article is a little light. It captures the imagination, but I don't see the evidence.

Certainly there is a sex bias in object preference present in infants and monkeys. I just don't buy the just-so story "hunting instincts" versus "nurturing instincts."

There's a few journal's listed as sources on the side of the linked article. Didn't read through them myself, but that would probably be a good place to start.

One reference mentions a nurturing bias in girls. No reference brings up a hunting-versus-nurturing instinct. It appears it is the unnamed author's own invention.

Perfect for people who want to experience what it's like to be embraced by one of those tall black aliens from the Ridley Scott and James Cameron movies!

Why'd you have to go and say that? Now I actually want one.

I have a similar (though much simpler and less nice) setup: height-adjustable desk, a good gaming chair that tilts back, feet on the table, keyboard in my lap, a single ultra-wide monitor over my legs on a long arm so it's front and center of my field of view. Works great for me.

Amazingly, this only costs a couple hundred dollars more than a decked out Herman Miller Aeron.

For a couple of years I had back pain and worked from a recliner. It was super comfortable. I had a wooden tray with the keyboard and mouse, and a monitor on an arm.

The only issue was that sitting up/down was tedious. It also occupied quite a lot of space and wasn't too glamorous... but for WFH it was great.

I'm truly amazed that searching "crushed" "hurt" and "injured" in these comments didn't turn anything up.

Anyway, I think this could be among the more stylish ways to be crushed to death by a malfunctioning piece of office equipment.

"The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain"

The actual tech is quite cool and it looks neat.

However, I would never have that in my home.

How about in your lair?

This looks like it will fuck up your floors very quickly. The feet are basically daggers and they slide around while the chair is transforming.

The description says those legs do not do that and don't touch the floor (well, not all of them)

Ah. It looks there are supports that I didn't see in some of the animations, but it still looks like the feet do contact the ground.

How do you get out of it if there is a power cut?

What about safety if your hand or hair gets in between the moving parts? Also cleaning those separate moving parts could be difficult. It will either get all dusty and dirty, or you will have to put ugly covers on top of it, I guess..

This makes me think of the chairs from the movie Wall-E. It's hard to imagine that posture is great for productivity or development. Yes, I know it's a "Gaming" chair.

didn't JP have one of these in Grandma's Boy?

Exactly my thought. Also the nicest way I could have possibly imagined to mention the personality stereotype

Yes he did. He had an entire (glass walled) office to himself, and would recline in this thing and code and listen to Aphex Twin. Aside from the voyeuristic aspect it sounds pretty nice to me.

I think JP's wasthe Emperor by MWE LAB: https://www.mwelab.com/en/emperor.html

Wow, that’s impressive. I would love to read some user reviews of such a setup. Have some of you ever tested such a chair?

This would be a great way to watch a movie lying down, but I'm very curious where anyone would put this in their house!

It replaces your desk, so the actual square footage likely would not change that much although the dimensions might.

I understand that bit, but all the same I can't imagine replacing my desk with this and not having it look out of place in the same location :)

Like.. it would feel weird having it face a wall. Maybe perhaps if it faced a window. Placing it in the middle of a room would definitely make a statement, but at that point you've dedicated the room to your scorpion-desk.

Try to get a man cave going. Anything goes in the man cave even this outlandish chair.

What happens if this thing malfunctions?

Nice. Not sure how one can get in though, the screens seem to be always in a way :)

The arms move out side ways and the screens can move up

$3,200

> Weight limit: 276lbs

I don't think they know their audience. Especially if that's inclusive of monitors and whatnot.

Off topic: has anyone noticed the cookie consent dialog says

By confirming or cancel this notification, you agree to our usage of the cookies.

I wonder how they'd feel about me hopping into the dev-console to just hide it.

It's 2020! Why TF can't we handle strings correctly?

And they’re not even curly quotes!

I thought the same thing and viewed source in case there were some clues. Turns out:

> <noscript><strong>We're sorry but cluvens doesn't work properly without JavaScript enabled. Please enable it to continue.</strong></noscript>

Seems like it doesn't work properly with JavaScript enabled, either.

Why do most gaming products look like an edgy 13-year-old has designed them? This trend goes from useless RGB coolers on RAM modules to tuning software for mainboards with a UI that is essentially a fancy bitmap with random interactive elements spread throughout for the user to figure out. (Basically Winamp but worse)

The most ergonomic mice are usually from one of these gaming companies, so it is difficult to avoid them. But their drivers are over-stylized bloatware, and their useless colored LEDs are covered by my hand once I start using the device.

This is tough to determine. One could make the argument that Gaming is inherently a childish activity that draw people with childish tendencies and childish tastes.

The counter to this would be what Nintendo learned with it’s product redesigns. Their original Game Boy Advance looked like a toy, but when they redesigned it into the Gameboy Advance SP, it became their best selling Gameboy up to that point. Nothing changed other than the design. The same could be said for the childish GameCube design, where the modern/Apple inspired successor Wii became their best selling console up to that point as well.

This is probably the same issue Tesla made about EVs. Why does an EV have to look like some particularly weird looking car? Why can’t it look like a decent entry level luxury car?

So ya, none of this advanced gaming hardware has to look this fucking stupid for sure. The design teams are basically insulting everyone’s taste based on some kind of prejudice, that we’re all some kind of Mountain Dew Code Red drinking neck beards with zero taste.

This chair looks like it has some very good utility that solves some issues around desk space, viewing angle and ergonomics. If they just approached it with less prejudice, it could follow a smaller modern minimalist form that would appeal to vast swaths of the population. For what it’s worth, a design like this is better at tackling the reality of sitting at a computer all day than the Standing desk. The standing desk is mainstream, but this will never be. I wonder why?

I cannot have a fucking scorpion chair in my apartment as an adult.

> One could make the argument that Gaming is inherently a childish activity that draw people with childish tendencies and childish tastes.

This was true when games entered the home and Atari/Nintendo/Sega/etc decided to sell them from the toy aisle (specifically the boys toys aisle). But that was 40 years ago. Similar to how the Simpsons is now seen as an old people show (and Looney Tunes even older), video games have grown up. Especially in the mobile space, but PC isn't far behind.

>The counter to this would be what Nintendo learned with it’s product redesigns. Their original Game Boy Advance looked like a toy, but when they redesigned it into the Gameboy Advance SP, it became their best selling Gameboy up to that point. Nothing changed other than the design. The same could be said for the childish GameCube design, where the modern/Apple inspired successor Wii became their best selling console up to that point as well.

That seems to be a bit of stretch. The original Game Boy Advance was already selling very well when it came out, being the fastest selling console in both NA and Europe soon after release. The GBA also never was the best selling Gameboy lineup: that's always been the original Game Boy/GBC.

It also seems like you're implying the Game Boy Advance SP was mainly redesigned to look more "adult" and that's why it was more successful. This ignores the fact that the SP also added a rechargeable battery and, most importantly, a long-requested built in light (first front-lit, later back-lit). The latter feature alone was another for many people (myself included) to side-grade from a GBA to a GBA SP.

I'll leave the question of whether the original GBA and Gamecube actually had childish designs (because they're both..purple?) to people who actually understand design.

It’s hard to find articles about it right now, but a lot of adults did not feel shame playing the GBA SP in public. The design impacted a lot. I encourage anyone to look up the original Gameboy Advance model and compare it to the GBA SP model to convince yourself how obvious that design change was.

As for the subjectiveness of the GBA and GameCube designs, it feels obvious to me. Like, the GameCube had a fucking handle on it lol. No dear sir, “purple” was the least of it.

To hammer the point home, Nintendo specifically mentioned that the modern redesigns of the Wii or GBA were Apple inspired, and were deliberate. They consistently made those types of modern design changes since the success of SP’s redesign (DS Lite). All the design changes looked less childish, a simple before and after google image search should confirm this for anyone.

I couldn't find any articles agreeing with you on the GBA aspect, and I think you're overestimating the "adult design change" versus "you can now play video games without having the perfect light source" aspect.

> Like, the GameCube had a fucking handle on it lol. No dear sir, “purple” was the least of it. I'm intrigued by your implication that adults never have to carry anything. The handle always suggested a briefcase look to me.

I did find an interview[0] talking about the Wii's design and you're right that the Gamecube was viewed a bit like a "toy" and how they tried to avoid that again. It's a neat look into their design process, specifically how they wanted the Wii to be placed directly next to the TV, but to look more "fun" then just a piece of AV equipment. Not sure where you got the Apple inspiration part, the design imagery was set by the Nintendo DS. On a related note, the DS Lite is not an SP redesign. Typo perhaps?

[0] https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/Iwata-Asks-Wii/Iwata-A...

The DS Lite is in line with the same design imperative started by the SP (which was a stark shift for Nintendo design wise that they mostly have been following through on). The Switch lite design is something one could never imagine Nintendo doing before the SP, for example.

Anyways, nice find on the article. If memory serves me well, Iwata himself mentioned the Apple inspiration.

> One could make the argument that Gaming is inherently a childish activity that draw people with childish tendencies and childish tastes.

This is, frankly, an insult against a majority of adults in the US. The "average" gamer is 34 years old, owns a house, and has children. 65% of American adults play games daily.

It's no more childish than watching TV or reading.

Yeah it’s insulting, but sometimes we do it to ourselves. Scorpion chair is a no no. Sometimes just take the easy wins.

That chair is wonderfully ridiculous, and I would enjoy the feeling you’d get every time you hop in it.

Those who judge tend to have their own hang ups around this kind of stuff. What’s yours?

Looks unsafe if there is a fire and the power goes out.

At a guess you are not into bondage.

I get a mild castration anxiety looking at it.

Yea, more than a tad bit insulting. Let’s just forget how great of a social activity is, especially during an isolating pandemic as well.

Some of my gaming experiences are my fondest memories, as “real” as any normal event. I’m also quite well adjusted with social activities, plenty of “real” world friends, adrenaline sports, and being a father. But I also have no judgement for someone who makes gaming much more of their life, as I did at one point.

> Why do most gaming products look like an edgy 13-year-old has designed them?

I think you've answered your own question...

In all seriousness (and I mean no disparagement to the kinds of folks who do enjoy gaming or making gaming rigs) I suspect that the kinds of folks who enjoy big flashy computer rigs are gamers who enjoy big flashy video games that need big flashy rigs to play them.

Also, I think it's a status symbol. Kinda like asking why performance cars have...well, RGB everything and look like a edgy 13-year-old has designed them. Huh.

I asked myself the same question for a while. Built “tasteful” personal rigs.

Then as a bit of a joke when I was helping some friends build their PC for the first time, we decided to be egregious with RGBs just for the hell of it. And you know what? It was fun to not be so serious. And I think that’s part of it, why not have a PC built for games have some personality in the form of pulsating water coolers, light bars, video cards with self-illumination? If you get sick of any of it it’s trivial to disable them in software of hardware (e.g. take them out).

I should also mention I’m not an edgy 13 year old, I’m a 40 year old dad.

> why not have a PC built for games have some personality in the form of pulsating water coolers, light bars, video cards with self-illumination?

Because this is the opposite of personality. Its dressing things up in pre-fabbed cookie-cutter accessories with a uniform aesthetic of cheaply made electronics. Its just an easy way to sell generic products at a markup.

Personality is personal, something that you came up with, not something that you bought of the shelf - that just makes you a consumer. Examples of PCs with personality:

* https://www.pinterest.de/pin/527765650070789504/

* https://www.pinterest.de/pin/170714642095089041/

* https://www.pinterest.de/pin/278941770641263283/

People enjoy the things they enjoy. Busting out the "No true Scotsman" to put down the tastes of others as having the 'opposite of personality' is needlessly negative and gatekeep-ey.

The bar for personality is not 'Spend thousands of dollars on bespoke computer cases'.

This is not "tasteful / expensive" vs "cheap / tacky". This is about paint-by-numbers vs painting free-form, from your own imagination, or playing Guitar Hero vs actually learning to play the guitar, and maybe writing a song.

It doesn't matter if the result meets other people's standards, it just matters that the template wasn't already carved out by someone else.

I picked my examples because I like them, just substitute them for something cheaper / less impressive, but self-made, if that is what you're getting hung up about.

Nah those are ugly. I like the RBG ones better.

Do you deny that that preference is an aspect of my personality?

Dear god I couldn't agree more. Those cases scream "I listen to vinyl" more than anything I've seen.

It's a tad ironic that those most obsessed with being original tend to be the most obsessed with other peoples' opinion of them.

> The most ergonomic mice are usually from one of these gaming companies

No they're not, just do your research [0] and don't buy flashy gear aimed for 13 year-olds. My general rule of thumb is if it looks like an LED alien, it's almost always a bad product. The company spent more money on marketing/looks than on engineering. This is very evident with current WiFi routers and motherboards.

[0] https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/mice/mx-master-3.910...

Can't left mouse with that one. Since the intellimouse is dead, gaming mice seem to be the only ambidextrous, full sized, wired mice out there. You just have to put on dark glasses until you can find the rgb toggle.

Go to eBay and find a suitable NoS symmetrical mouse. I have a late model IBM scrollpoint in the left hand right now.

I have an MX Master 2S. It's nearly the perfect mouse except for a 10ms input delay that makes it subpar for precise 3d modelling work. It sits on a shelf and collects dust. I use a G903 gaming mouse now, it delivers a precise mouse with zero input lag.

It is possible to make the perfect mouse, nobody does it.

Have you seen the software? Might as well be programmed with LEDs!

Because people spend money on that kind of gear.

A lot of money.

It’s really that simple. It’s like useless spoilers on sports cars.

Me, I’m not a serious gamer. I use a Mac. For all the hate poured onto Macs as “toys,” they are awful gaming rigs.

Also, I use a standing desk. I am not the target demographic for this product.

I have friends that are serious gamers, and they have spent many thousands on (multiple) flashy rigs and man-caves.

I believe that the most ergonomic mouses are the vertical ones. There are some models without leds.

Might be a bit of a selection bias happening... you probably don't notice the normal looking gaming equipment, or don't consider it gaming equipment if you don't see the ridiculous RGB stuff.

I have multiple machines with a KVM switch. I have different colors for each machine which is the only use I have for the LEDs.

For the mouse example (specifically), you could solve that by making (say) an OSS mouse:

https://github.com/biomurph/Mouse

But creating your own case for it. It'd likely be fairly time consuming, and need lots of iterations.

But once done, you'd be able to re-use the design pretty much forever. :)

I just want a boring, sparsely populated green solder masked PCB. I don't like these gaudy heat spreaders shaped like saw blades and gears covered with RGB led's. I look at a screen. Not the case.

I bought a nice little Logitech mouse for my Linux box which turns out NEEDS a driver to disable the RGB leds which by default runs a color changing breathing pattern. At first I used tape to cover them but I soon opened it up and cut out the blasted things. No way am I bothering with a damn driver to turn off childishly obnoxious lights on a mouse. I should have returned it but I mistakenly threw out the box during a cleaning spree.

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