Tesla’s battery day affirms Wright’s Law and spells trouble for the competition
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This can already be seen when looking at existing competition. VW’s ID4 compact SUV will cost $40k pre-subsidy when introduced next year, vs Tesla’s model Y at the same price.
VW itself isn’t a luxury brand, unlike Tesla, and wouldn’t normally be compared. The audis, BMWs etc would likely produce a more expensive car. The most comparable luxury brand cars are Porsche’s taycan which starts at $100k vs Tesla’s model S at ~$75k, polestar (Volvos electric brand), Jaguar I-pace, Audi etron etc which are all substantially more expensive while typically delivering less range and a worse software experience (which i’d say is the new panel gap).
All in all this looks to me very much like the smart phone transition when apple and Samsung/google took over the market. Maybe 1-2 of the old guard will survive, with everyone else ending in the slaughterhouse.
The Renault Zoe has outsold all Tesla models combined in Europe so far this year:
https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/09/europe-august-2020.htm...
And the Porsche Taycan and the Audi e-tron (both Volkswagen brands) have outsold the Model S and Model X.
Is it gonna be full of cheaper materials and be poorly assembled?
Edit: Why is this downvoted? :-))
how can you set aside brand weight in this question? isn't VW's reputation pretty much the only thing we can take into account when speculating about a future vehicle?
based on VW's reputation and personal experience, I would expect the fit and finish on a VW to be a good bit better than the model 3. at the same time, I wouldn't be shocked if they cut a few corners to hit a competitive price point.
The eGolf got good reviews on this; standard VW quality interior.
I have probably seen more Lambo SUVs in the last year than I had any other Lambo combined for my entire life.
The same was true for EV / Tesla early on, which helped establish their brand in a similar elite way. They’re still holding onto that for the moment, because cars don’t turn over as often and they have a production backlog — we’ll see if it lasts.
I think it’ll become more like Apple, where everyone of a certain class feels like they have to own the most expensive version, even if it only offers marginal benefits at double the cost.
This might change if other automakers actually make a real effort to create proper EVs. But I'm not holding my breath. My experiences I've had driving even high-performance non-Tesla EVs, seem to indicate that they'll hold this advantage for some years yet, at a minimum.
Spartan modern interior does not equate to cheap. When I first drove the TM3 home I was worried about the lack of individual controls but totally forgot the concern before my forty mile trip home completed.
Now each car I look at I wonder, what were we thinking, forty plus buttons and some combined with byzantine touch screen controls, as being a good idea.
My test to everyone is always the same. Put a sticky on every button in your car, you will be surprised how many there are, then take them off as you use the control. How many days if not weeks before even half are gone?
IMHO, the discussion about interiors is just a distraction. It doesn't matter when the technological gap is so wide, with no signs of closing. If making nice seats and dashboards is all the traditional automakers have going for them when EVs eventually become the obviously best choice....
This is a point that has more value than IP itself.
Being ahead allows you to protect your research about some new tech that no one is looking at, ok.
But just having to figure details in a factory is the real thing, it's what makes difference. Quality is a product of repetition with near perfection. Figuring it out is time consuming, see Intel x TMSC.
According to them patents aren't valuable, it's the velocity of innovation. It made for nice sound bites of how the valley works differently than stodgy old companies. But in reality it seemed to be a sham of you can use our patents only if you don't use our stuff that isn't even patented.
Might be easier to build a digital camera then a film camera. But where is Polaroid now? Kodak also did not fare well in the transition to digital.
It is certainly easier to run an online marketplace then a gazillion stores you have to restock everyday, right? Yet, Walmart has a hard time in the ecommerce landgrap.
I think with Canon it is similar - I can't find a long term chart right now though.
"Not surprising considering that the vast majority of people just use robo taxis now. The ICE manufacturers did just fine in the transition to EVs. It was the transition to self-driving they lost out in."
The idea that Kodak somehow ignored digital is a weird silicon valley fairy tale. Kodak shipped a 6 megapixel digital camera in 1995, years before anyone even came close (arguably, the Nikon D1X was the first comparable competitor, and it hit the market in 2001). What killed Kodak was not resting on their laurels, it was actually overspending on R&D that went nowhere, like their disastrous entrance into the pharmaceuticals market.
For those who don't know, they developed [one of?] the first digital camera very early on but IIRC they didn't want to cannibalise their market dominant position (why compete against yourself?!) so instead rested on their laurels and ultimately lost to digital.
Oh so they're waiting before prices fall so they can be caught "unprepared" and be eaten by Tesla or cry for another bailout from the government?
"Profits are not there yet" is like saying a wall is not there yet when driving directly towards it.
And I'm glad not all manufacturers subscribe to that naive view
That doesn’t automatically mean that legacy auto can build EVs better and more profitable than Tesla can. In fact the switching costs will be quite high and trying to do both at the same time may be a boat anchor on many of the legacy companies.
The legacy companies that are mostly run by the finance types are the most in trouble. This transition will require a significant pivot back to engineering focus from the top down.
To be clear, I don’t think it’s at all inevitable that the US continues to stagnate, but even if it does, he global market should be expected to grow.
Strong sales in July and August, particularly in Europe.
> "Had Tesla not made an awesome and compelling electric vehicle, battery prices may not have fallen as quickly because battery production would have been lower."
> "[Tesla] will [drive the cost down] itself and others will be brought along. "
> "We believe the auto industry will follow Wright's Law for battery cost declines, but delayed relative to Tesla"
> ... said Musk, and in about four years will have developed a truly “mainstream” car that will cost $30,000.
2018: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/18/elon-musk-tesla-could-produc...
> Elon Musk: Tesla could produce a $25,000 car in around 3 years
2020: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34112343/tesla-battery-da...
> Tesla Promises $25,000 EV in Three Years
There are quite a number of laggards in the market making decent money, and some probably have better margins than the competitors at the bleeding edge.
There is value in plotting data like this: to dispel anecdotal notions of progress or stalls. Progress has been incremental for a long time. The future expectations are incremental. It's probably going to stay incremental for now. There is little evidence of a stall, or that Tesla suddenly tore down the walls of physics.
Tesla needs as much driving data as possible.
Every of order of magnitude makes it that much harder for competitors to reach.
Once they get a critical amount, the AI of driverless will fall into place.
They will be subsidizing low cost vehicles just to get the driver data.
I don't care that other car companies cannot compete. There will be car companies that can, eventually. There may even be new car companies that doesn't exist yet competing!
These plans eventually lead to the stock price shooting up ten-fold in anticipation.
They could get battery cost down to zero and it wouldn't be as profitable as what they were talking about just last year.
The announcement at this new event of a $25,000 car available for sale to consumers because people don't all have enough for the model 3 doesn't make any sense given what was promised last year. It could add to the Robotaxi fleet, but would make no sense to sell to consumers without enough money when it could be operating as an automated taxi driver earning Tesla money instead.
One thing Musk says in this new presentation is that all manufacturers will eventually have autonomy, so this battery stuff is what really makes Tesla a valuable company. But the timeframe doesn't make sense. Either Tesla has some decent exclusivity period on autonomy, or autonomy isn't worth much to people buying FSD now, because there will be lots of Robotaxi competition. And in the case of a decent exclusivity period on autonomy, none of these margin improvements matter and the near term release of a $25,000 car to consumers is a huge mistake.
Go back and watch autonomy investor day and see if any of it holds up to scrutiny.
Making cars is a business line that currently had a lot of revenue, and if mapped out to a 25k car could take a large percentage of the worldwide car sales business.
There is also the grid level batteries, or selling batteries to others if they pull far enough ahead in batter production.
You don’t just stop battery research and assign those scientists to AI driving. They are fundamentally different hard problems.
How does, say, the Cybertruck factory make any sense if there is a limited period of time that is immediately imminent where hey will be the exclusive car producer with autonomy?
In the end, I think Nikola and Tesla have a lot in common beyond their namesake.
Milton (Nikola) just flat out made stuff up all the time that had no basis in truth.
Near a billion in California subsidies for fast battery swapping, and they just did one or a few demo stations then canceled it. It probably just used some hacked factory equipment and would never work with normal wear and tear on the cars.
https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2020/01/30/tesla-fac...
They only announced that V3 product development was complete in late 2019, so ramping up it's production also happened around this time.