This highlights the power and voice that individuals in a company have to hold leadership accountable and make more ethical decisions. Well done.
For example: https://www.texastribune.org/2020/09/15/ice-deport-witness-s...
(If you don't like factcheck.org, fine, but the facts have been widely reported elsewhere as well.)
I don't think that this gives cover to either Obama or Bush for any abuses of the system under their administration, but suddenly changing to a zero tolerance policy and massively widening the scope of family separation counts as a difference, no?
Now, what does that have to do with the point you were replying to?
I mean, if you think this is a bad practice, shouldn't we end it now? And if you don't think it is a bad practice, why feign anger at the previous administration?
* Just show up and not be obviously sick.
Or am I supposed to tell my children they have to "go back" to countries that no longer exist, on a continent that never wanted them in the first place, six, seven, eight generations after their ancestors left? A continent which is also under pressure to accept whatever immigrants wish to move there, no matter the repercussions of conflicts of culture.
This kind of dismissive attitude towards European-descended Americans is the same racist attitude that underpins the hatred towards anyone who identifies ethnically as "American," which I do, because my family's heritage is long-severed from the Old World, and thank God my kids won't even be able to be accused of being White, that evil race, due to my own miscegenation, so they do not need to listen to this kind of racist drivel about Americans with light skin on sites like this one day after day after day
There is a difference between immigration and illegal immigration.
You can be in favor of immigration, and against illegal immigration.
And why is it the children's fault for something their great great grandparents did? Should all the ancestors of everyone who ever went from one country to another be forced to return to that country? I don't think many countries could handle that many people.
The criticism of ICE isn't that they implement the law. It's how they use their power to (to use a recent example) implement forced sterilization of female prisoners: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/21/unwanted-hys...
I'm not sure that that has much relevance to the above poster's beliefs.
Even though ICE was created after 9/11, it's not like no one was doing immigration enforcement before them. ICE was just a re-org of existing agencies like the INS. In some circles, people don't even refer to ICE by its new name: Meet the new "la migra", same as the old one.
If you're someone like the GP poster who believes that people shouldn't be in the US illegally, it's logical to support immigration enforcement of people past the border. ~40% of people who are in the US illegally didn't enter illegally. They came legally and overstayed their visas. There's really nothing that the CBP can do about that, unless they take on the INS's responsibilities.
It's short sighted, and it's basically shocking how narrow in scope a lot of this populism is.
Has anyone bothered to venture outside the country, maybe for a 2 week vacation?
China is putting people into camps on the basis of their ethnicity.
Qatar has a new form of 'indentured servitude' where they bring in workers, grab their passports, force them to work of the 'debt' - and give the absolutely zero form of recourse, there is no 'justice system' just what the ruler decide on a whim. Beatings? Dead workers found the desert? Who cares?
Or even softer political movements like Irish Catholic groups that demand and end to all contracts for Northern Ireland based businesses?
It's not even scratching the surface.
CEO's taking actions on these populist causes willy nilly will lead to their own implosion.
There has to be deference to legal or legitimized entities or this will not end well.
You'd be surprised just exactly what you can legitimize. No entity, legal or otherwise, inherently deserves deference.
It's completely wrong.
The community is way, way more important than your opinion, and we have many established bodies to help us try to be objective about things, to protect minorities, to make sure we have a civic foundation.
Even at the international level, we have some semblance of rules we try to follow.
You don't get to pick and chose which laws to follow.
The best way to fix ICE is to vote, and support litigation if they are doing something which people feel is against the law.
They are a mainstream US government entity, there is otherwise no reason to ban them other than supporting internal political mobs.
Finally, I would double down on the excessive narrow mindedness of all of this. Take a moment to talk to migrants of countries with actually 'bad' regimes and you'll get an earful. There's real calamity in this world which makes a lot of consternation over otherwise relatively civic stuff seems really immature. I can't fathom how we must look to the immigrants we work with. At very least, if we're going to be serious about it we have to be consistent, and there are zero corporations that have the ability to do that, which is why we defer to established groups.
No, I'm saying that it's perfectly fine to critique any system that wields power. Please read my message again. It says so directly.
> The community is way, way more important than your opinion
I never really said you ought to go one way or another, against or pro ice.
Again, I'm just saying you can critique systems as much as you want. There are illegitimate legal and "legitimized" institutions: slavery, Jim Crow, japanese internment.
> Even at the international level, we have some semblance of rules we try to follow.
Sometimes, yeah, if it benefits us. Other times, no, we just go trample someone's country with depleted uranium, or we send death squads to rape nuns, or we help coups move along.
Some rules are followed, insofar as they don't interfere with our material or ideological interests.
> You don't get to pick and chose which laws to follow.
I only ever jay walked whenever I didn't see a cop around. I stayed out past curfew. I drove on rural back roads without a license. Hell, I barely ever updated my license when I moved states. I've sped a shit ton, as well. Almost anyone that breaks laws does so selectively because it's wreckless otherwise.
> Take a moment to talk to migrants of countries with actually 'bad' regimes and you'll get an earful.
Yeah, there are places that are worse than America, but there's plenty of critique to be had if we weren't so cowardly as to look inward. There's nothing more indicative of the American dream being dead than saying, "it's so much worse out there." That's the line of thinking that allows fascism to fester. Anything to protect yourself from the evil outside, no matter the cost.