Jio’s phone will run Android and cost about $54 | Hacker News Reader

Jio’s phone will run Android and cost about $54

bloomberg.com

100 pointsfinphil66 comments

God I hate Jio. They want to be the combined version of Amazon, Facebook, and Google in India.

The sad thing is they have deep ties with the current Govt, meaning no anti-monopoly action against them will ever be initiated against them.

They are completely against privacy and have don't have any ethical values at all. They block all VPN's, 'progressive' sites like Wikipedia, Reddit randomly, and blatantly copy other competing apps (whatsapp and zoom were the biggest thing they copied).

They are 100% going to get into the ads and tracking business in 1.5 years. They are the ISP, the chat app, cloud storage app, the browser, the entertainment/media app of many people here. They literally know more about you than Google does.

Jio is the greatest thing that has happened for rural India in the past two decades.

>The sad thing is they have deep ties with the current Govt, meaning no anti-monopoly action against them will ever be initiated against them.

The only reason there is a Jio "monopoly" is because the alternatives suck outside the urban cores of India's biggest cities.

>and blatantly copy other competing apps (whatsapp and zoom were the biggest thing they copied)

What is wrong with "copying" app ideas and concepts? I am happy that there is an Indian alternative to Zoom for business and government meetings. Just a few months ago Indian military officials were caught using Zoom to videoconference. They didn't know about Zoom's deep ties to the Chinese government.

The didnt copy the concept. They literally copied the app. In design, screenshots, etc.

They copied whatsapp and removed the encryption so they can read the chats. They copied zoom's exact design and launched Jio Meet. Like even the fucking colours.

https://old.reddit.com/r/india/comments/hke4m5/jiomeet_hey_z...

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/zoom-may-take-legal-act...

Colors? They even copied the date on the calendar's icon.

https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*GqNHPZ1DErlPPvciO21s9Q.jp...

Copying whatsapp/zoom is an easy thing. Its not cntrl+c and cntrl+v. You need infrastructure, competent de to back it up.

It's funny actually -- twice I've been at big investment banks, where a trader/analyst has come on from another place and brought screen shots with him from his old job. "This is what I want, and I assume you guys are competent to create it." I think it kind of skirts the line on IP, because none of the ideas are completely novel, and the implementation is from scratch. But sometimes knowing what to build is harder than knowing how to.

I've seen this too. I used to think it was surprising. But now I realize it must have happened so many times at all the major banks that even if one of them thought they could sue another and win they would be opening the floodgates to an unknown number of counter-suits. So I think that's why everyone quietly ignores it.

They are using a third party backend as infrastructure for FFS.

https://mobile.twitter.com/r0h1n/status/1279291492125880321

Seems like they wanted to capture the market as quickly as possible. Considering that they have a million-plus downloads on the Play store, it seems that the gamble somewhat did work.

> the alternatives suck outside the urban cores of India's biggest cities

Any advice for someone wanting to start an ISP in India? How difficult is such an endeavor?

Have been thinking of the same thing. Our PM talks about how he had decentralised pakora making. Hope he does the same thing for ISPs.

ISP -> Internet Served Pakoras?

> They want to be the combined version of Amazon, Facebook, and Google in India.

I think you're underestimating their ambitions.

It is sadly the next Maharaja's (Reliance) and the major share holders are the modern East India company (Silicon Valley)... History does repeat

Only a very small fraction of Indians care or are aware about privacy. Even if there was no Jio, you wouldn't still have privacy. American/Chinese government and businesses already have access to your data. To think that governments will voluntarily abandon control over data is wishful. That ship has already sailed. I would rather give my data to Indian government and companies than foreign.

Also, you are really underemphasising the role of Jio in the digital revolution in India. If you live in India, you would remember the exorbitant data charges by telecom companies in the pre-Jio era. At least because of Jio, internet has more become accessible to the masses.

I don't know about India, but in Kazakhstan I don't care if Google or NSA can access my data, but if local police can access my data, that would be quite concerning to me.

You should still worry about other parties having access to your data. Your local police can possibly request and get access to that data from those parties.

> If you live in India, you would remember the exorbitant data charges by telecom companies in the pre-Jio era.

I do live in India. I have highlighted your point in another comment.

> The sad thing is they have deep ties with the current Govt,

They have had deep ties with all governments since 80's

Rest of comment sounds like blabbering. As with Indian level of poverty where >80% people live on less than $2 a day no one can offer products with better privacy for just 2-3 dollar a month price.

Well said. Reliance is the bane of India. It is going to drag India down to the pits and make India into a banana republic of sorts

> Well said. Reliance is the bane of India.

On the contrary, recent events imply that it has been a boon for India. Jio is the single reason why mobile data rates came down in India and they are one of the few entities that have brought in billions of dollars in the country amidst a pandemic. Saying that many Indians from the lower end of the economic strata have access to Internet just because of Jio will not be an overstatement.[1]

And it's not just about Jio. Many middle class people who hold Reliance shares have benefited over the decades and it's one of the few companies that is known to protect the interest of retail investors.[1]

> It is going to drag India down to the pits and make India into a banana republic of sorts

I am not sure how Reliance is going to do that. Would you explain that a bit?

1. https://yourstory.com/2020/06/mukesh-ambani-bridged-india-di...

2. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/goo...

3. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/master-move-how-dhirubh...

You are talking about a very minuscule population of the country benefiting from Reliance share prices. That is really the issue when monopolies such as Reliance arise. Reliance's monetary success and growth does not imply that India is doing well.

Case in point: Reliance is now completely debt free and has grown tremendously since 2014 - while the rest of India is now financially in much worse shape. India's debt has more than doubled in the meantime and the economy is in the pits..and that is before COVID even began.

> You are talking about a very minuscule population of the country benefiting from Reliance share prices.

I think you missed the part where I wrote about Jio's entry into the telecom market. Jio now has more than 385 million active subscribers and I am not sure that means a "minuscule population".

> Case in point: Reliance is now completely debt free and has grown tremendously since 2014 - while the rest of India is now financially in much worse shape. India's debt has more than doubled in the meantime and the economy is in the pits..and that is before COVID even began.

That's just a correlation. If you are implying that Reliance is somehow weakening the Indian economy, then kindly share references for the same.

And what’s India currently?

World's largest democracy,unlike China. Among the largest economies in the world, nowhere as large as China but it will get there. Overall Free press and judiciary, unlike China. A consititution that guarantees rights for all people, unlike China. Minorities are free to worship , unlike China which is mass raping Uighurs. India is a very imperfect work in progress.

Also the economy which is slowing down at the fastest. About the rights of minorities etc, less said the better.

Every single democratic institution has been compromised - including the parliament and the SC.

Have you seen the news from last couple of years? Under the current government, India has lost much of that.

At this rate, India will become worse version of China, without the economic development.

Sorry to say, it has become more democratic by going after paid actors who create riots, upending the Bollywood drug nexus, and much more. Not everyone is clean but the top brass of the government is doing everything to take out license Raj and remove drug sponsored terror money.

The fact that you are so willing to believe all the propaganda put out by the government without refusing to look at the facts is the issue. Even about the so called drug-nexus, you seem to have not noticed the following:

1. That we are soon going to be #1 when it comes to Covid cases worldwide.

2. That our economy has been in the worst shape since pretty much any time in the last 60+ years

3. That China holds well over 1000sq kms of land (the combined size of Mumbai and Chennai)

4. That the parliament has basically suspended any democratic functions and is passing bills willy nilly with no discussions

5. That unemployment is the highest it has been in decades

But lets keep focusing on Bollywood - just as this govt intends for you to.

These have nothing to do with free press, judiciary and places where minorities can worship.

In the world's second most populated country...incidents have been happening all the time. Except now its the media reporting and amplifying and sensationalizing the issues to get TRP and clicks.

Could you properly list down what has India lost with references?

Can you not do your own research?

I did and my results don't match with the parent's comments. Hopefully, the parent will enlighten us with their thesis on the topic.

Every point you have mentioned can be applied against any behemoth in any country, with slight exceptions on some countries having more controls than others.

Ever heard of a lobbyist? How the FCC operates, how lobbying is influencing decisions , how net neutrality is screwed etc etc?! once you check those out, you will find a common story line across board.

Also w.r.t privacy, the link posted on this has 30 trackers, you are already being followed everywhere online! infact, every site that you visit will have 2-3 trackers so, jio may be a plus one than being the sole problem!

But would be very interested to know about JIO blocking Wikipedia, any sources?

> blatantly copy other competing apps (whatsapp and zoom were the biggest thing they copied).

Both of those services are in categories where there are lots of similar services. Copying either one is just entering a crowded field of very similar services, just like the two examples did.

I meant by design. Not concept. App colours, screenshots and UI.

https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/hke4m5/jiomeet_hey_z...

They also removed the encryption.

They want to be PayPal/Venmo/Alipay, Apple (in the way of this smartphone and a tight ecosystem) as well? Probably some others too

> They block all VPN's, 'progressive' sites like Wikipedia, Reddit randomly, and blatantly copy other competing

Source?

I can access wikipedia, reddit. When was it blocked?

"They are completely against privacy and have don't have any ethical values at all.". Should be easy to become the next Facebook.

This is arguably a huge gamble on ARPUs of this market segment. Telecom ARPUs are already extremely low because of Jio's predatory pricing (which was incidentally called "penetrative" pricing by India's antitrust regulator [1]), which negatively impacts service quality and bandwidth. It's a great growth hack for startups who are looking for DAU/MAU farming but it is unlikely to translate into reach cash flows unless you also have paying customers with deeper pockets. Interesting to watch this unfold.

[1] http://competitionlawblog.kluwercompetitionlaw.com/2019/06/1...

Just to add perspective, just 2 weeks back they reduced the Optical Fibre Connected 40mbps plan to $6.36/month, with generous 3.3TB monthly limit. You can get 1gbps on same line with appropriate charges.

Soon after leading incumbent Airtel matched their plan with $7.95/month.

Mobile & Broadband is really PICKING UP OVER HERE, all thanks to Jio.

I'm curious about the specs. Back in 2018 you could already buy a China Mobile A3S from Taobao/Aliexpress for ~$60. That was the state telephone company's budget Android phone with a Snapdragon 425! Which is not really powerful but still way better than the usual Mediatek SoC you would find in cheap phones like this.

A good overview here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2we4OemMIs

I had this phone in my hand and it was nicely built so wonder Jio can release something better than this (given the price range)

Jio has produced cheaper phones for ~$20. What's different according to the article is that the upcoming smartphone will run Android, unlike Jio's current phones which run KaiOS.

I'm skeptical that they'll be able to run Android tolerably on a device that cheap.

Technically they can subsidize the device by hoping to make money from the user data in future.

>Indian telecom giant Jio has started working with at least two domestic manufacturers to secure capacity for 150–200 million smartphones, according to Bloomberg.

this will help India to build up its manufacturing abilities.

Apple/Foxconn setting up shop in India and Taiwanese OEM like Wistron moving to India as well. Chinese aging population and rising wages is giving India a chance to replace China as world's manufacturer.

the only thing that is holding back India is India's govrt.

There are environmental considerations in manufacturing these, as well as need for immense amount of clean water which is already in short supply in India; the devil is always in the details ...

Untangling themselves from China is a good step, but turning their cheek to Facebook to create their "super app"... well, seems like they're going to imitate the US and China when it comes to privacy and ads.

The Nokia 1 I'm typing this on runs Android (Go edition) (shipped with 8; upgraded to 9 then 10) and cost $75 in the US a year ago, with free shipping from Amazon, so seems doable.

If you worry about privacy in a country with no data protection law in place, you should stay far away from anything Jio. I’ve said this before here: when Jio was announced, the company said that “data is the new oil”, indicating that what oil was to Reliance’s growth and power would be what data would be for the company from then. The company also said it would do deep packet inspection of traffic to learn more about the people on its network (you can find news reports of this online). Jio has also fought against encryption of communications.

While a cheap(er) phone may sound like a great idea in a country where many people are struggling (and more so with poorer policy decisions in the last few years), this is a deal with the devil.

People like saying that switching away from Gmail is pointless because most of the emails you send would still go to Gmail (I don’t entirely agree with this, but that’s for another post). I see it being the same with Jio very soon. It will have all your data and habits because the people you interact with are deep in its ecosystem. Beware, and stay safe!

Am I missing something here? My local Kroger’s market has perfectly good android 9.0 smart phones for $30 or so. I bought one just out of curiosity and it performs pretty well, with the screen measuring over 6 inches, decent battery life, and pretty snappy performance.

Suspicious barrage of new accounts on this post. Hmm, especially top level comments.

Please stop sharing business insiders articles. Its paid and I have no intention to pay

From the FAQ [0]

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They let me read it without paying... might be because of ublock origin or some other addon though...

Just install this Firefox or Chrome

https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

Can anyone with context tell me how far 4000 rupees go in India? It feels cheap enough (like a fire device) but also that did not turn out hot.

A roadside restaurant on highways (called dhaba) should server Full stomach meal for usually INR 50. So that Rs.4000 is 80 Meals.

Another reference, Minimum wages for Unskilled Labour is INR 400/day. [1]

https://clc.gov.in/clc/node/645

are u living in 2009 year.. for 50 bucks u get 2 plain naan on road side dhaba in Maharashtra

Give anything at a cheap price and it will be a hit here in India.

Jio will mostly bundled this with their sim card sales. Everybody will then buy it. It will come preloaded with all their apps. Therefore, Jio users will use it. Then all non-Jio users will be forced to use it.

Thanks to Jio, bandwidth prices are insanely low here. That's the only good thing that has come due to their existence.

A few years ago, they gave away calls and internet access totally free for a year if you download all their 10 apps from the play store. Each of their apps got 50-100 million downloads. Which forced competitors to reduce prices drastically, and since then it is been an insanely competitive market here.

There is a reason Facebook and Google have invested in Jio. It's going to get into the advertising business in 1-2 years.

For reference, a teacher that I know in Maharashtra is paid about $9000 USD yearly, or ~630,000 rupees.

That actually sounds like a lot (R52.5k/month).

What type of teacher is this? College lecturer? Private tuition teacher? Government teacher?

The average seems to be R20k

Over a fucking year has passed and Kashmir STILL has no 4G internet access. Inclusivity and digital economy my ass

Came here to read about J Lo's phone.

It's not just the phone. They will sell it with some other service(maybe be JioMart?), which will make the deal attractive.

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