For Camus, It Was Always Personal | Hacker News Reader

For Camus, It Was Always Personal

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80 pointsacsillag23 comments

> Don’t bother Googling for a coffee mug embellished with this vow. I tried and came up empty.

This is an easily solvable problem, at least for however long this link lives.

https://www.zazzle.com/pd/spp/pt-zazzle_mug?addon=none&color...

More relevant, Camus has recently re-entered into pop culture thanks to Rick and Morty, with plenty of articles connecting the two (e.g. https://www.telegraphindia.com/entertainment/rick-and-morty-...).

“ This maternal silence, which soon came to assume a metaphysical presence, became the center of his work. ”

I have loved delving deep into Camus during this dark period of modern human society. Existentialism has become such an intriguing set of beliefs that I stumbled upon in reading “Ecclesiastes” and that I will probably continue to dive deeper into all of my life.

Has anyone read Soren Kirkegaard? He’s next on the list.

I highly recommend Either/Or. At the very least sample a bit of each section (the Either and Or respectively).

It’s a witty and oftentimes paradoxical ride, and, because of Kierkegaard’s use of pseudonyms, you’ll be hard pressed to really put your finger on what he believes. But that’s all part of the fun!

“Marry, and you will regret it; don’t marry, you will also regret it; marry or don’t marry, you will regret it either way. Laugh at the world’s foolishness, you will regret it; weep over it, you will regret that too; laugh at the world’s foolishness or weep over it, you will regret both. Believe a woman, you will regret it; believe her not, you will also regret it… Hang yourself, you will regret it; do not hang yourself, and you will regret that too; hang yourself or don’t hang yourself, you’ll regret it either way; whether you hang yourself or do not hang yourself, you will regret both. This, gentlemen, is the essence of all philosophy.“ — Kierkegaard, “Either/Or.”

Forewarning: in my opinion, Kierkegaard falls into that class of writers whose readers are too frequently obsessed with their pessimism, so much so that they miss the greater point. Much like Nietzsche or even Edward Gibbon, Kierkegaard’s central theses are much grander than trite pessimism and nihilism. I hope you see that and enjoy his works.

What about responsibility? If every way is arbitrary and regretful and therefore meaningless, would responsibility be a meaningful guide?

I'm getting divorced, and, if it were just the old lady and me, either choice leads to regret, which I can accept. But our children are not at fault, so, regardless of whether I regret the choice, I'm bound by responsibility to be there for them regardless of regret.

Nihilism absolves of that weight. Likewise, pride of self goes with it. Good or bad...and what ought to be only angels know.

In my opinion, nihilism is a problem, not an solution. That is to say, it isn’t something that can be “believed in”. Embracing it is ultimately paradoxical.

As I mentioned in the original comment, it’s often hard to tell what Kierkegaard actually believed if you’re not well versed in all his work, but I’m fairly certain that quote is a bit facetious. I added it as an example of his playful style of writing in Either/Or. He’s mocking Hegelian dialectical thought, but I think also making a point that those conclusions are easy to make, but ultimately unhelpful.

From Wikipedia, so take it how you will:

“This process of reconciliation leads to a "both/and" view of life, where both thesis and antithesis are resolved into a synthesis, which negates the importance of personal responsibility and the human choice of either/or. The work Either/Or is a response to this aspect of Hegel's philosophy. A passage from that work exemplifies Kierkegaard's contempt for Hegel's philosophy. Note the comparison between "A" and "B" (Judge Vilhelm) in Either/Or and Stages on Life's Way.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Søren_Kierkega...

For Kierkegaard it was about a “leap of faith” (religious in his view, yes, but certainly applicable to a non religious context, too). You don’t need to waste time trying to solve metaphysical questions with rationality (unless it’s for your own personal enjoyment, of course).

The Buddha also says it well in the Parable of the Poison Arrow:

“ The Buddha always told his disciples not to waste their time and energy in metaphysical speculation. Whenever he was asked a metaphysical question, he remained silent. Instead, he directed his disciples toward practical efforts. Questioned one day about the problem of the infinity of the world, the Buddha said, "Whether the world is finite or infinite, limited or unlimited, the problem of your liberation remains the same." Another time he said, "Suppose a man is struck by a poisoned arrow and the doctor wishes to take out the arrow immediately. Suppose the man does not want the arrow removed until he knows who shot it, his age, his parents, and why he shot it. What would happen? If he were to wait until all these questions have been answered, the man might die first." Life is so short. It must not be spent in endless metaphysical speculation that does not bring us any closer to the truth.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Poisoned_Arro...

Thank you for writing this comment, and especially the Buddha quote. I hadn't read that before, and it's very thought-provoking.

No, thank you for reading my rambling. I’m glad you got something out of it!

I used to teach Existentialism before leaving academia. As the other comment mentions Kierkegaard's "Either/Or" is worth a read, I also recommend "Fear and Trembling."

The other two writers associated with this term I think are must reads are Dostoevsky and Nietzsche. The former's Notes From Underground is one of my favorite pieces of literature. I highly recommend reading it alongside his "Winter Notes on Summer Impressions," a travel diary he wrote that heavily inspired his later work. In it, he vividly describes the kind of anxieties he has with modernity that influences his work.

And for those wanting a higher level overview of Existentialism and the myriad (seemingly incompatible) writers associated with the term, I highly recommend Kevin Aho's "Existentialism: an Introduction." I've read most of the popular overviews and this one is hands down the best.

Great recommendations!

I would like to add Paul Tillich’s “The Courage to Be” to the list. Not only is it a good work on existentialism, it’s also a fascinating reminder that theology is not as one-dimensional as it is often portrayed.

Ecclesiastes is one of the finest existential works ever. It’s so heavy and emotional to get through. A lot of Kafkas work generated the same emotions in me the first time I read them, despite being more ironic.

Same here. I read the Trial this summer too. It felt much in the same vein as Ecclesiastes did.

Vanity of vanities.

> Ecclesiastes is one of the finest existential works ever

Absolutely agree with that. Ever by Flipper is up there too.

I just finished "The Denial of Death" (Becker) that contains a lot about Kierkegaard in his role as a kind of early psychoanalyst. I recommend this book if you want to know a bit more about Freud, Jung and Kierkeegard. (And about being human I suppose.)

Also isn't "Ecclesiastes" a book of the Bible? What's a good resource to find out more? Any good introductions or commentary?

I would highly recommend downloading the ESV Bible app (or reading it in browser https://www.esv.org/Ecclesiastes+1/).

The book is a relatively short read and I find it to be fascinating. “Koholeth” is about 1300 years ahead of the existentialist but like Kieregaard he ultimately makes some decisions on what the meaning of existence may be.

Old Hebrew Scholar, Robert Alter, called the book “the most peculiar” of all the books in the Old Testament. I hope you enjoy :)

Fitting with the coffee-mug theme of the article, Kierkegaard was known to have a large collection of mugs and would annoy the assistant who made him his coffee by asking him to him explain his choice of mug.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D9JCwkx558o

I save myself time by watching YouTube videos about philosophers instead of reading the primary sources

In the end, I’m able to take a broader survey and dive into what I actually care about

Ultimately it isn’t any of the philosophers

I see nothing wrong with reading primary sources though

Just not for me

“We must mend what has been torn apart, make justice imaginable again in a world so obviously unjust, give happiness a meaning once more to peoples poisoned by the misery of the century.”

It’s interesting to read that but know he didn’t support an independent Algeria free from his people’s colonial subjugation.

> All there is, he concludes, are “stones, flesh, stars, and those truths the hand can touch.”

A tempting philosophy for such a time, but too reliant on the senses. Change is all there is. Accept that and never be disappointed.

> Wishing to keep the change he received after going to the store, Camus’s adolescent alter ego tells his grandmother that it had fallen into the latrine pit.

Words fail me.

As a meticulous observer, Camus may provide interesting insights into a how a mother may providing relational for her beloved son.

I don't understand "may providing relational" - can you fix or explain?

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