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These same arguments are made about race in the US too.

In fact, I think looking at both through the lens of caste is a better way to interrogate some of the issues.

I thought this podcast made that point in a pretty compelling way: https://cafe.com/stay-tuned/americas-caste-system-with-isabe...

Interesting, I'll check it out. The caste system in India was originally based on profession, and people could move around freely between "castes" , at some point it was co-opted by assholes for their benefit.

I believe Europe had a guild system that operated in the same way, IIRC. I’d be curious about how those systems compared and evolved.

> The caste system in India was originally based on profession

That is the official political line, but the reality (as always) was much more complex. It also had a significant tribal, multi-racial, and multi-cultural bases, all evidenced in scriptures and the cultural, linguistic, and genetic landscape of the Indian subcontinent (including Pakistan, Bangladish, Nepal, and Sri Lanka). In that respect it's nothing unique even to India - the social structures of most of the world were built on the same basis.

I find the notion that discrimination based on profession is somehow acceptable extremely strange.

Not discrimination but division of labour or separation of powers to put it in current day context

I have been studding Buddhist scriptures and I don't think this true. The following quote is from 2,500 years ago:

[The] brahmins say: ‘Only brahmins are the highest caste; other castes are inferior. Only brahmins are the light caste; other castes are dark. Only brahmins are purified, not others. Only brahmins are Brahmā’s rightful sons, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, created by Brahmā, heirs of Brahmā.

https://suttacentral.net/dn27/en/sujato#dn27:4.13

"There is no evidence in the Rigveda for an elaborate, much-subdivided and overarching caste system". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India

I'm certainly not an expert in Indian history, but it seems that there was a caste system 500 BC with four castes which people were born into.

Is there evidence that people were able to move between castes before that time?

Another one but with Ezra Klein hosting: https://www.vox.com/2020/8/25/21399479/caste-the-warmth-of-o...

To right historical wrongs is not easy. I initially thought of the reservation system as a terrible idea because of exactly the reasons you stated.

These policies are meant to help society in aggregates so there will always be folks who get screwed. Its important to keep trying though. While slavery in the US is perhaps 300 years old, the caste system has been seemingly around since the beginning of civilization on the Indian subcontinent...that's an unimaginable amount of time over which certain sections of society were systematically discriminated against.

It was meant as repatriation of resources back to the downtrodden, as all well meaning ideas start off....

True, am not against that, but without checks and balances, as as happened in India, it ends up creating another set of problems ( poor Brahmins now complain of lack of opportunities).

The caste system was not as rigid before, it was more a system around professions ( Brahmins - intellectual class, the Kshatriyas - warriors, Vyshya - Merchants), until someone at the top decided it did not have to be based on that anymore.

  pm90> These policies are meant to help society in aggregates so there will always be folks who get screwed. Its important to keep trying though.

  sharadov> True, am not against that, but without checks and balances, as as happened in India, it ends up creating another set of problems (poor Brahmins now complain of lack of opportunities).

Reservation policy should not be confused with financial assistance. The government does have financial assistance in many forms, which is available to everyone needy - brahmins included. Reservation policy is for correcting imbalances in the aggregate, such as the one pointed out by a sibling comment:

  esalman> What is more unfair? One 25,000-ranked dalit student getting favored over a 5,000 -ranked brahmin, or the fact that 25% of IIT students do not represent dalits even though they represent 25% of the whole population?

Poor brahmins, in your example, complain because small dents in institutionalized privileges one enjoys is indistinguishable from oppression.

What is more unfair? One 25,000-ranked dalit student getting favored over a 5,000 -ranked brahmin, or the fact that 25% of IIT students do not represent dalits even though they represent 25% of the whole population?

That sounds exactly like the issue in the US.