Next-Level SSD Performance – Samsung 980 Pro 1TB Review
overclock3d.net
overclock3d.net
970 Pro 980 Pro Optane
TBW, TB 1,200 600 17,520
QD1 random read, IOPS 15,000 22,000 73,000
QD1 random write, IOPS 55,000 60,000 66,000
QD32 random read, IOPS 500,000 1000,000 575,000
QD32 random write, IOPS 500,000 1000,000 550,000
Sequential read, MB/S 3,500 7,000 2,600
Sequential write, MB/S 2,700 5,000 2,200
May be it'll be interesting for someone. Most numbers are from specs, some Optane numbers are from benchmarks. I guess that sustained write load will yield lower numbers for Samsung, because they're using their DRAM cache to achieve those numbers.I remember SSD lifespan going down between the Samsung 470 (32nm flash) and its successor the 830 (20nm flash), and going down even further with TLC flash.
Doesn't seem to affect the average lifespan (it's more data than most people will write) but still, it would be nice if they lasted longer instead of being ultrafast.
Any news on 980 Evo? Considering this downgrade, I'd assume Evo will run on QLC.
They really should make a "high endurance" SSD model for consumers. I think many people would like that over benchmark speed. Personally, I can only saturate SATA 6 Gbps when doing backups.
This and the durability were the main reasons to pay the premium on the Pro line. Not sure what will be the value compared to the competition once the new Phison controller is out (or even Evo when there is a model for PCIe4.
Good read https://www.servethehome.com/exploring-best-zfs-zil-slog-ssd... Another good read about Samsung 970 pro: https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/my-nvmes-suck.45158/
The wear speed is actually the same as a 970 Evo @ 500GB, 3GB/s and 300TBW. There’s zero chance you’ll hit that during a normal computers lifetime even if you run data science tasks all day.
And you probably won't even know it! SSD is silent.
Due to a Windows Update bug, temp folder is filled with error logs which aren't deleted afterwards.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-za/help/4458149/windows-10-...
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/hard-d...
So I bought one of these SSDs off of ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Optane-Memory-M10-SSD-M-2-228...
And put it in this enclosure:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MKCG5ZG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...
Instead of being recognized, one of the chips on the Optane ssd started to get very hot. Was wondering if anyone knowledgeable in Optane could explain where I went wrong here? Is it even possible to put Optane in an external enclosure and write to it like an SSD/external drive?
I am excited about Optane because it just seems like such an exotic technology given the interesting performance gains you get in terms of small file throughput.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61vzuDqQjJL...
In the specs for the Optane drive you linked, it says its interface is a M.2 2280 (22mmx80mm) PCI-E 3.0 NVMe. The M.2 2280 is a physical port interface, the signaling is PCI-E, and the storage protocol is NVMe.
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/135581/...
You'll want to get a different enclosure which mentions support for PCI-E NVMe drives. EDIT: I wonder what the impact of it going over USB and the additional USB to PCI-E controller. You should probably see about getting a Thunderbolt enclosure so theoretically the PCI-E interface doesn't have to go through yet another translation, otherwise you'll probably just kill the performance you'd hope to get out of the SSD.
I wonder if I have burned my SSD by plugging it in...i'll have to find a adequate enclosure to find out. Although if I have burned it, then maybe it could then damage the new enclosure...hmm
>I wonder what the impact of it going over USB and the additional USB to PCI-E controller. You should probably see about getting a Thunderbolt enclosure so theoretically the PCI-E interface doesn't have to go through yet another translation, otherwise you'll probably just kill the performance you'd hope to get out of the SSD.
Hmm, the machines I am testing on don't have USB-C thunderbolt. I'll have to look into this. So I can see raw bulk performance being limited by the USB bus but would 4k performance be limited as well? I thought this was a limitation of the Flash memory and SSD controller.
Yes, that socket is not standards-compliant. It should have been B-keyed.
> Sold by SSK Direct > Business Name:Shenzhen Huajianli E-Commerce Co.,Ltd
No surprises here.
On a simplistic view: SSD <--> enclosure USB device <--> USB chipset on your PC <--> your processor
Compared to: SSD <--> PCI-e interface <--> your processor
Also note that USB is by definition a bus. Multiple devices can live on that bus and contend for the same bandwidth. If your mouse and webcam and keyboard and USB WiFi adapter and what not are all on the same bus, activity on multiple devices reduces the max throughput you have available to your USB device. This (usually) isn't true with PCI-e, which (usually) has dedicated bandwidth between the device and the CPU.
This isn't to discourage you from using this drive however you wish, just letting you know of potential pitfalls and challenges along the way. You may get the performance you wish from this, but the bottleneck of IOPS is far more likely to be limited by one of the chips in the USB path rather than the SSD itself.
Yes, I understand this. What I am thinking of is the overhead of reading and constructing each block from flash. Is this really limited by the USB controller capability(I guess theoretically yes since its in the chain?) or is it just limited by the Flash controller and typical USB controllers. I guess we can test a theoretical bottleneck by running an IOPS test and comparing it to official Benchmark numbers of that Optaine model. That way we can eliminate the USB controller if the numbers match up.
This is the structure from what I understand. PC Host Controller<--->USB Controller(in the enclosure)<--->Flash Controller(On the SSD)<--->Flash chip(On the SSD). Is this wrong?
So here with Optane we have a massively high throughput of small files but a lower throughput of large files.
Is this scenario something that a USB controller would noticeably slow down? I have never tested this before.
A regular SSD has lower throughput of small files in exchange for high throughput of large files(slower throughput but higher bulk transfer) which is noticeable if the USB controller was not up to the task (See most USB Drives which have this + flash controller on the same board)
Basically the whole reason this idea came up in my head is that I notice that despite using high bandwidth drives to install clean Windows and Linux copies, I notice certain bottlenecks in the install process that I suspect are a result of many small files being copied/unpacked(either copying package files in Linux or unpacking the WIM in Windows).
So that led to me wanting to benchmark a High IOPS drive and comparing it to low IOPS to see once and for all if the install process is choking on the drive vs something else (ie. the CPU capability for decompressing). Its just a weirdo side project that I wanted to try.
Eventually I even wanted to somehow try a ramdisk type scenario although I don't think that sort of hardware exists.
This is also motivated by the fact that I don't have a way to intercept the file reading process on the drive as they are being read to see if the drive really is the source of any bottlenecks or if its the installer code.
To a large extent that is a software problem. The installers/package managers are neither pipelining nor parallelizing their operations properly. If you're dealing with many small files then on the reader side you want to issue a window of readaheads for a certain size across multiple files rather than doing one file at a time and on the writer side you need to batch your fsyncs.
> So that led to me wanting to benchmark a High IOPS drive and comparing it to low IOPS to see once and for all if the install process is choking on the drive vs something else (ie. the CPU capability for decompressing). Its just a weirdo side project that I wanted to try.
There are PCIe slot to m.2 adapter cards, those are more efficient and cheaper than external adapters.
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/compare.html?pro... for a comparison of the types of SSDs if you're curious.
I have a firehose of data that needs to be stored without dropping samples for a scientific application. Thus the best benchmark is the “whole disk fill” benchmark. Samsung 970 Pro sustains 2500+MB/s The Samsung 980 Pro thrashes all over the place, going as low as 1200MB/s!
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16087/the-samsung-980-pro-pci...
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/268254-samsung-launche...
Are there any others coming out soon or are Samsung far ahead of the competition?
It's really amazing that there's no Intel desktop that can run PCI Gen4 at the moment.
Will be interesting to see how stock will be. Especially if this is also one of the few SSDs certified to run in a PS5. Which has an M.2 slot.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/phisons-new-e18-ssd-contro...
The 7GB/s is meaningless unless what your disk does is move huge files around.
In future SeqQD32 could be way more important if things like DirectStorage utilize it better.
PCIe 3.0 caps at 4GBps.
PS5's custom SSD will be 5.5 GBps. But it supports M.2 expansion.
> "We will be supporting certain M2 SSDs," Cerny confirmed. "These are internal drives that you can get on the open market and install in a bay on the PS5. They connect through the custom IO unit just like our SSD does, so they can take full advantage of the decompression, IO co-processors, and all the other features I was talking about. Here's the catch though: that commercial drive has to be at least as fast as ours. Games that rely on the speed of our SSD need to work flawlessly with any M2 drive."
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PCIe 4.0 is a very flexible and high-bandwidth protocol. GPUs have been doing PCIe -> GPU transfers for some time (without any intervention of CPU or DDR4 RAM). Its good to hear that the PS5 is fully taking advantage of these capabilities.
But it does mean that M.2 drives of a certain speed are needed to effectively play PS5 games, should you use the M.2 expansion port.
There are factors besides performance. Samsung is not known for particularly high quality firmware (the 830 Evo performance fuck-up, multiple queued TRIM bugs, etc.), but after reading a disproportionate amount of horror stories of silent data corruption and data loss for most of their competition, I'd rather spend the extra bucks.
as for reliability, this is hard to judge from anecdotes on the internet. you really need access to something like the backblaze data to start drawing conclusions. I had an oem samsung drive die in my xps 13 a week after the one year warranty expired. I have a WD hard drive that's still going strong after eight years. unless you have a lot of data, I think it's best to just back everything up, accept that you're rolling the dice, and hit a $/perf point that's acceptable to you.
For people who do need fast, large sequential operations, I'm sure it is amazing though.
The high speed bus interface is useless if your flash and controller are garbage to the point where NVMe is sometimes no indication of a laptop's storage performance and just a marketing name.
Image/video editing, bulk file transfer, and threaded IO are the key benefits of NVME.
Another important thing to mention is that even on sequential write workloads where NVMe shines they actually have limited benefit. Because after the SLC cache fills up seqential speed drops like a hot potato.
So if you're copying a smallish large-file which won't fill the cache then it'll be few seconds faster than a SATA drive. Or you'll be copying a large large-file, which'll fill the cache and drop to NAND speeds so it'll still end up being few seconds faster than a SATA drive.
The truly "next gen" performance was Intel's Optane 3D XPoint, but that is ludicrously expensive.
And even then it's like boot from SSD 12 seconds at $130 dollars vs Optane 10 seconds at $1200.
But assuming that NVMe and SATA SSD controllers emit the same energy, it makes more sense that NVMe would be hotter.
Think about it. If you throw a ball of high heat meat would it cool faster if it was connected to a large body of water (SSD with its chasis) or a small body of water (NVMe small piece of plastic that is the NVMe)?
Another thing to check if your NVMe either has proper thermal pads placement and/or if the air from the front coolers is reaching it.
Which is ironic because NVMe was supposed to be more efficient and doing less work because it's design wasn't bound with SATA&spinning assumptions and controller doesn't need to handle pcie-SATA conversions since it's directly connected to the bus etc.
One problem with m.2 is the spec would permit a module with the controller on the bottom where it would be difficult to cool. But I think so far nobody has been dumb enough to ship one.
There's also the location of the temperature probe, it doesn't need to be much further away from the heat source to register drastically lower temperatures in either case.
m.2 is a form factor, or really sort of a family of form factors.
SATA and NVMe are protocols and interfaces. In m.2, there are 12 key indexes. Drives use indexes B and M. m.2 support both NVMe and SATA. NVMe drives for m.2 are keyed at index M. M.2 SATA drives are keyed at B or often both B and M.
m.2 supports SATA and NVME, sometimes but not always in the same slot. For NVMe speeds, you need an NVMe drive. Those come in PCIe x2 and PCIe x4 at PCIe 3.x and PCIe 4.0 revisions of the standard. The drive and slot must both support this. m.2 SATA 3 drives don't have two cables to them like a 2.5" SATA 3 drive usually does. It goes in an m.2 slot that supports SATA and is keyed appropriatly.
m.2 also has various lengths: 40mm, 60mm, and 80mm. Some drives are up to 110mm and many boards provide for that. The "2260", "2280" and so on are drive sizes, 22m by the length.
m.2 also supports non-drive cards like GPS, Bluetooth, WLAN, WWAN, or NFC.
Another, earlier than m.2, standard allowed drives with a SATA interface on a card with no cables. That was known as mSATA.
But yeah, you generally use Optane either as render cache or for non-volatile RAM. Or a ridiculously fast SSD drive.
Now I do stuff like doing grep (well, ripgrep really) on an entire home dir, compute often hashes of files and things which may not be considered "regular use cases" but which I think are still "regular" or at least semi-regular when doing software development.
To me PCIe 3.0 x4 (or now 4.0 x4 I guess) NVMe M.2 vs SATA is day and night.
Here is loading times for windows and some blind tests:
Your personal experience could be down to several factors.
For example - wear of your devices, how much your SSD was occupied, drivers, other components being updated as well, etc.
Early SATA SSD has performance consistency problem, QD1 not as fast, etc.... they were way faster than HDD, but not perfect.
NVMe started off with controller that has already been fine tuned, hence comparing them to SATA SSD tends to be a lot faster. Now if you have similar controller on NVMe and SATA you might only notice the difference in the video. But the context still matters.
As a developer I would just have to disagree.
After using NVMe SSDs for a while, using SATA SSDs suddenly feel like I’m on spinning rust plates.
To me it’s a night and day difference.
There have been a number of PCIe 4.0 drives coming out so far.
* Gigabyte AORUS (5GBps read) * XPG Gammix S50 Lite (5GBps read, lowest power consumption for laptops)
Both seem pretty close to the 5.5GBps PS5 speed, and probably would work. 7GBps sequential is the fastest SSD I've seen so far, though QD1 IOPS is more important to the typical user.
for legal reasons, I am joking.
Last I really dug into SSD benchmarking, sequential was usually quite gaudy for a lot of SSDs that were seeking benchmark placement, but the real advantage of SSDs over HDDs was random access and IOPS.
IF this is such a massive improvement, is this mostly due to:
- PCI bandwidth utilization? - 8nm silicon? - controller algorithm/efficiency?
It's my impression that controller algorithms have peaked after the first couple iterations of consumer SSDs, so we'd be left with either bandwidth or silicon.
And how less durable is 8nm cells, since flash at a theoretical level becomes more fragile with each node shrink?
Even at a 50% premium for latest tech, prices haven't gone down that much since.
Samsung 980 is a premium SSD with much faster performance, so $265 is pretty expensive, you can get a 2TB "normal" M.2 drive for that much.
So you'd only go for the Samsung 980 if you really needed the speed.
It used to have the fastest SSD on the market. What happened to it?
"the fundamental problem facing the 980 PRO and other high-end NVMe drives is... very few real-world consumer workloads... make good use of its full performance potential... 1M IOPS... sounds impressive, but that's only possible in fairly unrealistic conditions... the peak... performance of the drive simply does not matter to consumers today.
raid it up yo.