The Fairphone 3+ is a repairable dream that takes beautiful photos | Hacker News Reader

The Fairphone 3+ is a repairable dream that takes beautiful photos

gizmodo.com

128 pointsrbanffy69 comments

Manufacturers could do a better job at making screen replacements easy, as that's what breaks a lot. Other than that, having software updates for a long time is a much more important missing piece on Android than this. For anyone that cares about security Android phones become outdated far faster than the hardware becomes broken. Android One is a step in the right direction but there aren't enough manufacturers and models:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_One

Nokia is the only manufacturer that seems to have a whole range on it, and even they are messing with Android.

Fairphone employee here.

I totally agree with your assessment. So does Fairphone. That's why we trying to address both issues with a modular design for ease of repairs and long lasting software updates.

Have a look at our current effort to bring continued software updates to our five year old predecessor Fairphone 2: https://www.fairphone.com/en/2020/06/18/fairphone-2-gets-and...

The problem is that updating Android this way doesn't fix the prevalent security issues in proprietary firmware from Qualcomm, e.g. the QualPwn vulnerabilities [1] from that allows remote takeover of the modem. Countless vulnerabilities like these are found every year, and currently-supported phones will get patches for them on a monthly basis, but those without BSP (board support package, i.e. drivers) updates will be left in the dust.

I suspect that the outdated downstream 3.4 kernel isn't even getting security fixes, so the QualPwn root takeover vulnerability (among many others) would be unpatched.

A big step in the right direction would be to work with Linaro, postmarketOS, and other parties actively involved in mainlining Qualcomm chipsets to forward-port the old SoC to a mainline kernel, or at least to a newer downstream Qualcomm kernel version. It's not trivial, but it's possible; I've ported my Pixel 2 XL with a Snapdragon 835 (kernel 4.4) to the 855's kernel version (4.14) with most features working. I never got around to finishing it and polishing it for daily use, but an actual company like Fairphone should have the resources to do so. In fact, there is already a WIP port of the FP2 to pmOS with a mainline kernel [2], and there's more mainlining work for it that has a decent amount of features working [3].

While this doesn't solve the firmware problems (which really can't be dealt with as even OEMs don't get a lot of the source code for the firmware), it still improves security (and performance!) by a lot since most severe vulnerabilities that users are most likely to be hit by are in the kernel. I think this is ultimately going to be the right way to go if Fairphone wants to keep updating devices for so long and patching as many security issues as possible.

Perhaps Fairphone could also negotiate a long-term support contract with Qualcomm? I noticed that the mid-range Snapdragon 660 that started on kernel 4.4 was officially forward-ported to kernel 4.14, probably due to some vendor requesting it.

Don't get me wrong: it's already much better than other manufacturers, and the BSP support problem is out of Fairphone's control, but it's still possible to make the best of the situation on the software side without relying on Qualcomm as much.

[1] https://blade.tencent.com/en/advisories/qualpwn/

[2] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_2_(fairphone-fp...

[3] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Qualcomm_Snapdragon_800/8...

Yup, I totally agree with you. There are many issues — especially in firmware — which we are not able to address. We do backport linux security patches but that gets harder with each release.

We did indeed talk to other interested parties and attempted forward ports of the Qualcomm specific kernel features to LTS versions. I am not directly involved in that team anymore and sadly cannot tell you the exact reasons, but this failed to yield a usable kernel.

I do like your suggestion of long-term support from Qualcomm which was unfortunately not possible for the Snapdragon 801. For Fairphone 3, this is hopefully on the table again (especially, if — as you are saying — other customers also show interest in LTS support).

In summary, you make many great suggestions most of which we also attempted at some point. Unfortunately, the devil is often in the details.

That seems like a 2015 problem. Glass is much stronger now.

Anyone outside Europe can buy the Fairphone 3+ from Clove UK [1]. They have 25 yrs experience shipping phones. The official fairphone store ships only inside europe.

[1] https://www.clove.co.uk/collections/smartphones/products/fai...

There's another catch that might irk some American buyers:

> At present, Fairphone doesn’t support 4G connectivity in the U.S.

Hmm yeah. Just checked. Some bands are not supported in US.

FP3/FP3+ Network specifications

In case you need it for your specific situation, the network specifications for the FP3/FP3+:

    Configuration Dual-SIM, Dual-Standby (DSDS)
    SIM Sockets 2 x Nano-SIM (4FF)
    Network Technology 2G / 3G / 4G LTE - Advanced 
    GSM/GPRS/EDGE Quad-band: 850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz 
    UMTS: Band 1 (2100 MHz); Band 2 (900 MHz); Band 5 (850MHz); Band 8 (900 MHz)
    3G Max Downlink Speed - 42 Mbps
    3G Max Uplink - 11 Mbps
    4G / LTE Advanced Band 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 7 / 13 / 20 / 26
    4G Max Downlink Speed - 300 Mbps
    4G Max Uplink Speed - 75 Mbps

Source: https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047326452

You don't have to take your phone to an Apple Store. There are plenty of mom & pop or chain repair places that can replace the camera module. I've been happy with uBreakiFix.

I used to repair phones on the side back around the iPhone 4S. It was a great time, where anyone with patience and the ability to follow instructions could replace a screen (for <$10 depending on the device), camera, battery, etc. Most repairs were as simple as removing some screws, prying off the display with a plectrum, and replacing the part via its ribbon cable.

Nowadays the barrier for entry is much higher. Most things are soldered on, there's adhesive and sealing gaskets EVERYWHERE (fancy heating machines help, but cost $$), and even if you get it back together you can no longer count on the device being waterproof -- which is surprisingly a big deal for a lot of people, even though waterproof phones are a recent thing.

I got comfortable with gaskets and gasket-making while working on cars. If the tech repair youtube still hasn't mastered this art I'd suggest looking at automotive youtube.

Prepare the substrate, use the right silicone for your materials, use gap-preventing technique, and you can make it happen with high reliability even if you don't have an ultrasound to check your work. Your grandpa didn't have an ultrasound and his automotive gaskets had to put up with a lot more abuse than your phone ever will. There was no magic then and there's no magic now. You can do it too.

I can't count how many iPhone 5, 5S, 6, and 6S's I've fixed. The golden age of iPhone repair. I've also done a 7 or two and one 8, but I think my phone repair days are pretty much over now. Even if the new ones weren't so repair-unfriendly, aftermarket replacement parts are almost impossible to get for a reasonable price. When they get the quote, most people would rather live with a cracked screen.

And don't even get me started on iPads, the screens never go back on right. I flatly refuse to work on them anymore.

> you can no longer count on the device being waterproof -- which is surprisingly a big deal for a lot of people, even though waterproof phones are a recent thing.

Waterproof phones might be a real thing, but dropping phones in water isn't. It used to be that certain clumsy friends of mine would write off a phone by dropping it in the toilet every few months. Most phones will survive this now.

My wife's phone fell into water around four times. Only first time it was with original parts. Other times was after my somewhat sloppy screen replacements. Once after being underwater for half an hour I had to replace battery and eventually screen, because sometimes touch input did not work. Now the phone seem to be at the end of its life, but will probably work for another year or two.

I replaced screens 2x Moto G1, 4x BQ Aquaris X and 2x Pixel 1, also batteries 3x BQ Aquaris X, 1x Nexus 5x and 1x Pixel 1 and speaker on Moto G1. It all was not all that difficult, so that's why I bought my Pixel 1 used with broken screen. All parts coming from Aliexpress and last screen came surprisingly quickly (within 2 weeks).

Though this new batch of tinker friendly devices like Fairphone or Pinephone is something I track with interest. Main issue with phones getting obsolete is not hardware though as it is software. That keeps me hopeful especially regarding Pinephone, but Fairphone keeps updates significantly longer than run of the mill Android phones.

They are all too big for my taste, but that's a different subject altogether. I would like to see something in Unihertz Jelly 2 format. But for now I will stick to beat down phones.

that's a lot of screens to go through!

My wife helped ;)

I recently replaced my Macbook screen after living with a half cracked LCD for over a year because I had assumed it was impossible to DIY and a hefty charge was inevitable. I followed the relevant guide on ifixit and found the whole process pretty straightforward. I would have grappled with it much earlier if there was more messaging out there that says "hey, if you have nothing to lose, and more spare time than cash, you actually can fix these things yourself", because you totally can! And you also get to feel smug about it afterwards because you hear so much to the contrary.

Yeah, you totally can. Anything that's been assembled can be disassembled.

But the number and complexity of tools has increased a lot. Used to take 2 screwdrivers to fix a phone or a laptop. Now you need special screwdrivers, a heat gun, pry tools, glue, small tweezers at least.

And a whole BGA rework station if you want to replace components with a decent quality of work.

> Anything that's been assembled can be disassembled

Sure, but can you reassemble it after the disassembly? There are certainly products for which that is essentially impossible: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/AirPods+2+Teardown/121471

A Macbook is a very different beast from a latest-gen iPhone.

It's different in that the latest-gen iPhone is a bigger challenge.

It's the same in that loads of people say it's impossible when it actually just requires a new bag of tricks.

Part of the confusion was over the T2 chips that were added back in 2018 that were reportedly[1] bricking computers if non genuine parts were used locking out independent repairers.[2] I'm not sure if that functionality is actually active though.

[1]https://www.extremetech.com/computing/280501-apple-confirms-...

[2]https://www.ifixit.com/News/11673/t2-mac-repairs-test

More anecdata here... Mom and Pop stores are good at fixing phones they see often and basically just watching Youtube videos for phones they don't see often.

I had a hell of a time trying to get someone to fix my Blackberry (long story) a few years ago (longer story) even though every store said they could handle it. They could not.

Apple is doing everything it can to prevent that. From firmware updates that bricks your phone if you replaced the screen finger print sensor or their shady 3rd party repair program which require NDAs and inability to get replacement stock.

I cannot understand why people pay more money for the privilege of being abused like this by Apple.

FTFA, shining light on why the author decided against taking it to a non-Apple repair shop:

> The problem, an Apple repair representative explained, is that an open-for-business repair partner might still have to send the device into Apple anyway, a process that could have left me without a phone for well over a week and possibly longer.

If you're out of warranty, avoid Apple repair and Apple Authorized service providers at all costs.

Much like the apple stores, Apple forces AASPs to declare everything a mainboard repair and ship the devices in, forbidding them from doing simple port swaps and such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Dkzj10jeA

The officially refurbed mainboards have exceedingly low quality to boot. That same youtuber has run into official refurbs with rubber pads to push intermittent connections into position, boards that were clearly left in the oven over lunch break, and so on. Someone wrote in from the refurb center, which is apparently run like a sweatshop with competitive quotas that make shoddy refurbishing and "run it on the test bench again, it might work" nonsense inevitable. It's bad.

Apple Authorized repair doesn't exist to repair your device, it exists to persuade you to buy a new device.

I don't fix phones but I've heard that Apple is taking increasing measures to stop independent repair shops. Knowing what part to replace and how to do it doesn't help you if the manufacturer won't sell the part to anyone but Apple.

Certainly was expecting more highlighting of the camera in the article going by that title.

The photos do look really good and natural.

We had a Fairphone 2. We loved the repairability and ethos, but it was very unreliable, probably to the pogo pins.

The mic and camera repeatedly failed. Wiggling and cleaning the contacts worked occasionally. We also bought new mic and camera modules. Ironically the repairabiilty compromised the reliability.

The last time it broke we bought a refurbished iPhone.

The fairphone 3 improved this quite a lot! My partner's got one and it's definitely not as unreliable as the fairphone 2.

It's unfortunate but I think they had to go through each iteration to make it work better, I think they've found a sweet spot now. It's too low spec for my taste, but good enough for any other member of my family

I was put off buying a Fairphone3 because of reports like this about the ff2. In the end I bought one and I'm very happy with it. No problems like this at all. Shame issues with the old model tarnished the brand and hopefully the reputation of the ff3 will repair things.

The only tarnishing I experienced was on the contact pads.

I'd buy a Fairphone again if they'd fixed those issues.

Explain?

It was just the mildest of jokes on the word 'tarnish' metaphor vs literal.

I assumed that the issues with pogo pins were likely to do with corrosion (tarnishing) on the PCB pads affecting the contact. And that I have't let the experience affect my view of Fairphone enough to prevent me buying one in future.

While they gloss over it, the price on this seems a bit steep. It's in-line or worse on most features than the iPhone SE and is likely quite a bit slower—it's limited to 3G in the US—and it's $150 more expensive. Seems like the more environmentally friendly move would be simply buying a used/ refurbished iPhone for half the cost with better performance.

> Fairphone hopes that its phones can stretch that length of time to between five and seven years, in part by making phones that aren’t disposable by design.

Does anyone have a 5 year old Fairphone? How are they able to keep software updates coming while every other Android maker is making a huge deal out of 3 years of support?

Fairphone employee here. As I just replied to a different thread: We are trying (and struggling) with continued software support for our five year old Fairphone 2. The Android 9 is currently in beta and my colleagues are trying to address the last remaining issues for Google certification.

For details read https://www.fairphone.com/en/2020/06/18/fairphone-2-gets-and...

For context Android 10 was released over a year ago.

This has been explained in the article:

> Qualcomm is no longer supporting the chipset in the Fairphone 2, we have to make Android 9 comply with all of Google’s requirements ourselves

That's why it took longer and why it's not android 10.

Qualcomm is basically the bane of android software upgrades it seems.

The price is steep relative to other phones, but nothing else competes in terms of repairability (fairphones are the only phones to have got 10/10 from iFixit) or the supply chain equity. So it's not trivial to compare its price to that of others.

I went for a Fairphone 3 because I could afford it, because I support its values, and because its spec is more than enough for me. Six months in and I've no doubts about whether it was the right decision. I'd very much recommend it.

I don't disagree.

I'd love to see stats on device longevity versus the iPhone. In 3-5 years. I do get frustrated with having to replace devices every few years, but I don't think I'd make the same choice you did. Paying a premium for a device which is tied to a 2 year old version of Android with 3G is a tough pill to swallow.

I highly doubt an iPhone SE will last for another 5 years though.

The current SE was released earlier this year with the same SOC as the iPhone 11 (A13 Bionic). At least for OS support, you can anticipate support for 5 years based on Apple's general treatment of their phones (the primary exceptions were the first few models, when the hardware changed drastically between each year).

I'm of course talking about the first SE, which is easily found refurbished/used on the market.

The SE 2 won't be found on the second hand market anytime soon.

The two oldest of my three, I bought new in 2016. One is on its second screen assembly and battery, the other on its first, and I'm building up stock against eventual unavailability of new replacement parts.

Ask me in 2025 how well they've held up.

We're going to see 5G in the next 5-7 years... you think I'll stay on 3G for the purported 5-7 year lifespan of this 3G only device? Leaving out 4G (at least) defeats the purposes.

4G is important for some applications, but my feeling is that 5G won’t matter much.

EDIT: Oh, and the phone HAS 4G, just not in the US.

That actually sucks, because I was considering it.

I don't need 5G, but 3G is a bit too slow. I mean that's going back in time a decade (literally).

Fairphone has 4G. See the comment by help56883

Especially since mobile providers are phasing out 3G to free up frequencies for 4/5G.

I am currently very pleased with my Motorola One Vision, which I intend to keep using for as long as possible, as I did with my Moto X Play before it and my Galaxy S4 Mini before that (my first smartphone, I held out for a long time).

When my X Play died, I did look into getting a Fairphone, but they weren't selling at the time, and I needed a new phone that wasn't be another 2-3 months away.

Hopefully it will be a long time before I buy another phone, but I am keeping an eye on Fairphone, Pinepone and the Purism phone. Especially Fairphone has really come a long way and have a really compelling product now.

I do need some apps from the Play Store, most can be worked around in a decent web browser with somewhat reduced comfort (FB Messenger for instance), but others demand the app (mobile payments and short-term car rental/sharing here in Denmark), so for the moment I have to stick with the Android ecosystem.

Maybe I just need to cold turkey the whole thing.

How well are they supporting the original Fairphone with operating system updates?

Don’t know about the shipping OS, but Fairphone 2 is still receiving Lineage OS 17.1 (Android 10) updates:

https://download.lineageos.org/FP2

I can't speak for fairphone 1. But I have had my fairphone 2 for 4.5 years now and I am very happy with software updates.

https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/204642759-Op...

Is it the case that Fairphone 2 is only on Android 7.1? I understand it's modified, but I don't think we can consider that really supported with updates with an OS that old.

There are two aspects to software updates on Android devices:

* Major version upgrades ("cookie upgrades") and * Security updates

Fairphone 2 still receives security updates for Android 7 and Android 9 for Fairphone 2 is in beta.

They made the mistake of selecting Mediatek for the FP1 and ran out of viable options to keep supporting it at some point.

The hardware support was EOL'd due to supply chain issues: https://www.fairphone.com/en/2017/07/20/why-we-had-to-stop-s...

Oh yes, indeed. I still feel the pain as I was working on that ...

For subsequent devices (FP2 and FP3) the situation has improved a bit but frankly, long term support from Qualcomm is also non-existent. We are still struggling to bring updates to the old platform of FP2.

My dream for my fairphone 3 is to be able to dual boot Android and a non-google os. Why is this not a thing for any phone?

Because no significant user base asked

If this phone was available in the US I would buy it in an instant

God, why is that website so frustratingly unusable? Is it because I'm using FireFox on Android? Tried to copy/paste for a whole minute the section about the phone's memory capacity, without success.

The thing I wanted to bring attention to is the author said the phone's memory was 64GB, expandable to 400GB with a MicroSD card. He should be using the word storage. Phone adverts should be using the word storage. The technical specs pages on the phone manufacturer should be using the word storage. Phone reviewers should be using the word storage and not memory, because they aren't talking about Random Access Memory (RAM).

Amount of RAM is the only spec for phones sold today that indicate whether or not it can be responsive while running both Chrome, Facebook, and GPS simultaneously. If every mobile phone sold on earth was like the Fairphone, then this would be the one deciding factor for me - and it's a detail, that for some absurd reason, is ommited from the article.

> God, why is that website so frustratingly unusable? Is it because I'm using FireFox on Android?

Sorry to go off on this tangent, but yeah, probably. I've been trying to use Firefox for Android recently and it's just been pretty bad. Social media sites (Twitter, Reddit) all seem almost unusably bad in it, frequently becoming unresponsive. Certain features like text highlighting not working in form fields on some sites is common. And I get they're bloated, and in Reddit's case deliberately annoying, but Chrome for Android at least produces a reasonable experience.

Edit: having tried the site in both browsers - the site itself is pretty anti-user in both browsers, but in chrome seems to be more or less okay-ish after giving it a little while to load.

On iOS, there's a quite tall video banner that chases me down the page, obscuring a full third of the page. On Safari on macOS, there's a giant dick banner where an ad would be were it not for the pi-hole blocking the ad. The dick banner chases me down the page, too. And that's with a pi-hole that the entire network uses for DNS. The site must be near unusable for the muggles.

> Is it because I'm using FireFox on Android?

sadly yes. firefox on android is unusable. really, really unusable.

Mozilla is continuing the war against its own mobile users. The problem is, it's winning.

How about not using the term "ROM" to refer to software images people install on to writable storage?

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