Why books don't work (2019)
andymatuschak.org
andymatuschak.org
I have been a Software Engineer for over a decade now and I do seriously difficult network and kernel work right now. There has never been another point in my career where I have been so incredibly aware of how much I don’t know about what I work on. If you’re doing your career right you should feel your ignorance more and more. Books offer us something incredibly valuable, the feeling of ignorance. I can’t think of anything our culture could use more of right now than humility.
I wasn't trying to implicitly compare Western culture to some idealized other culture, I was trying to limit the scope of my critique based on my limited knowledge of the world.
Then again, of course, I'm sure that applies to plenty of people in the western hemisphere as well.
So, I think it could be argued that the term "western culture" is a misnomer in general, and maybe even a problematic one—but I don't think GP was out of line with common usage.
I think people feel subconsciously guilty that they do not read more. It is thus easier to dismiss books than to acknowledge the fact that most attention spans have been reduced the the granularity of a comment thread. We are all victims to this. Reading a book takes more effort than it used to.
I fear that most people have already read the last book they will complete in their lifetime (not that completing a book is necessary in deriving value from it).
I agree with most of your points but not this one. The proliferation of audio books and text-to-speech (TTS) has made reading books easier than ever. Particularly TTS in my case; I can read an eBook visually for a few hours, then switch to TTS for a while to give my eyes a break, and in this way easily marathon books. Once you are accustomed to TTS you can turn the speed up very fast. I tune the speed on the fly to compensate for mental fatigue to maintain a consistent level of comprehension; when I'm 'in the groove' I can comfortably set TTS to around 750wpm. I can read visually faster than that, but only in a 'sprint', not with endurance. (I find that for finishing a book quick, it's better to be a tortoise than a hare.)
I read nonfiction and fiction like this. Math heavy texts aren't well suited for it, nor books with many charts and tables, but except for a few cases like that it's very adaptable. Modern TTS even handles weird names in fantasy novels surprisingly well.
That to me doesn't sound like someone complaining about not remembering what they read, but someone complaining that they can't backup the arguments that they now consider their own. Books aren't meant to transfer the author's knowledge to the reader they're meant to offer an abstraction of the author's knowledge to the reader.
The writer of this post has no trouble remembering the abstraction, but without more effort the abstraction cannot be backed up.
In order to really make knowledge your own you have to do serious work. You can't just read one book.
If we were in situation where many people rarely learn from books then conclusion would make sense. But authors examples are all fairly in same category - pop famous edutainment. Maybe selfish gene sux at teaching. But it is apparently good entertainment and did a lot to popularize that part of biology and evolution. It worked in that sense for many people.
Not that books are useless or you shouldn't read them.
I think part of the problem is that the author of TFA sorta "buried the lede" and didn't really get to the point until very near the end. I suspect a lot of people got bored and quit reading before that point. Honestly, I did, and it wasn't until my second reading that I got what he was saying near the end, which is admittedly a somewhat different take.
"Books work, but they're not the complete solution" is a much better title, but then us as the audience don't need to read a multi-page Medium article type rant to know that.
To be honest, you could replace 'book' with 'video', 'article', 'podcast' or any other medium people learn from and the article could stand pretty much as is and give the same general point.
The whole article could probably be more effectively re-written with the focus on time and learning, using different media as well as books as an example and make the point stronger. By choosing books as a focus, the author loses the main point and doesn't really get to it until the end, making the article, as you and other commenters pointed out, ranty and a slog to read through.
It's both. The proposal is at the very, very end, after a boring, long-winded screed about how everything else doesn't work.
> the author gives a link to his proposal
I took a look. I don't see any significant difference between this and a traditional textbook.
I think he emails problem sets at appropriate times after you finish the book to ensure you remember everything.
Specifically, the "premise of the article" being "I invested 15-20 hours reading this book and, boohoo, I’m not a subject matter expert on the book’s topic" is nowhere to be found in the article, at least by my reading. Or maybe it is actually there and I missed it?
I suppose the author of the article would help his/her case with examples of how you can improve on what can be communicated by a book, but I reckon that might actually be impossible.
I read about a similar concept few years ago. https://fs.blog/2013/06/the-antilibrary/
The books I truly love, I've read at least three times, with pages full of highlights and notes. Re-reading a great book is worth more than reading the latest trends. Seneca wrote a bit about this nearly 2000 years ago:
Be careful, however, that there is no element of discursiveness and desultoriness about this reading you refer to, this reading of many different authors and books of every description. You should be extending your stay among writers whose genius is unquestionable, deriving constant nourishment from them if you wish to gain anything from your reading that will find a lasting place in your mind.
Also, these books mentioned, as all non-fiction books do, include a bibliography. If someone wants to learn more, they simply should read more.
We can’t expect any device, book or otherwise, to do the work for us. If someone is not getting what they want out of it, I would suggest that they work harder.
“I believe that learning at its best is the antithesis of comfort.” Ruth J. Simmons, 18th president of Brown University. [2]
[1] http://www.en.utexas.edu/amlit/amlitprivate/scans/goodre.htm...
[2] https://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/2001-02/01-...
Fortunately, they are far outnumbered by people who love books, buy them, read them, share them, put them on bookshelves, and would generally think this article is profoundly silly.
If you want to know what instantaneous knowledge transfer looks like you just have to look at how ideas commute via Twitter/Facebook memes, which is largely a reification of word-of-mouth.
On a certain level, actual learning requires active participation: you have to want to learn. Learning disrupts your entire world and that's kinda the point. The idea of frictionless learning seems fanciful.
You can say you're shortening the feedback look in a multimedia text, but the desire to learn in my experience starts very early in life and is a fragile thing to cultivate. The author is trying to pour water out of a sinking ship with a bucket. You want people to want to learn, get rid of common CORE with basically tells all the kids who don't have STEM proficiencies or can match pace with its demands, "good luck with life"
There are gigantic swathes of people, the people most in need, who'd already be daunted merely opening the author's marketed multimedia text they wrote at the sight of the math equation.
You're already introducing something terribly new and threatening, threatening to the sureness of the reader's ego, which, again, is why people learn easiest from toxic, context-less memes.
"Get explainers of insights from 3,000+ bestselling nonfiction titles. Free 7-day trial. It takes just 15 mins to read or listen to the key insights from bestselling nonfiction. Audio and Text. Insights in 15 minutes."
Personally I recoil in horror at their marketing as an "app for intellectuals". Genuinely, deep diving is frequently required. Summaries by their nature lack nuance.
I want to read the nuance. I want to give the author the chance to get their point across. I want to read all the footnotes, maybe lookup things in the bibliography.
I don't think anyone I know to be what I'd call an intellectual simply listens to summaries of books. It's sort of anti-intillectual to do that indeed.
So long as I am able, I will always try to find time to read something new. Especially from books. I can't be precise about this point, but I seriously believe that the kind of information that can be conveyed in a book, cannot be communicated any other way.
I think it's fair to discuss what can be gleaned from a single reading of a book, but there can never be any question of just how much can be communicated by a book, and how much can be learnt from one.
The advent of cinema, and even personal computing, has only served to show how essential a technology the written word is.
It's going to take a very radical piece of technology to improve on it. One that we probably won't see in our time.
A person must learn actively while reading:
- By taking notes
- By summarizing important/difficult to understand sections in their own words via writing
- By looking up and exploring alternative explanations of complex idea, and following the two aforementioned avenues towards solidifying one's understanding
Rinse & repeat.
Reading != Learning.
Reading is more of a casual perusal of knowledge, when one isn't actively engaged in the above 3 ways mentioned (or other strategies to absorb the knowledge presented in a book or other compendium of information)
Learning = actively engaging with subject matter with a strong intention to understand and even memorize when necessary.
What I'm trying to say is that when we read a book for knowledge I think we must trust our subconscious to do the heavy lifting. I am a believer that our brains incorporate lessons read and experienced into decision making, even if we're not consciously calling on it or thinking about it directly.
If you want to learn from a book, you have to play a more active role. Personally I find that the process of learning from a book involves A. read it once, straight through like a novel - maybe underlining key passages in pencil, then B. reading again and taking detailed notes as you read, and possibly looking up citations, or related references (the Wikipedia page for a particular term or phrase, for example), then C. re-reading your notes a couple of times as well as reading and re-reading supplemental material that you found, and finally D. writing your own synthesis of the material.
Yes, that's a lot of work and yes it takes a long time and no, not every book justifies doing all that. Sometimes it's OK to just read the book like a novel, and walk away with just a vague memory of the highest level themes and maybe detailed recall or one or two specific points that resonated with you. It all depends on why you're reading the book and what you hope to get out of it.
Edit: and if it's a book with exercises, then add "do the exercises" as another step. That said, I see reading / working through a textbook to really "learn a subject" as being a slightly different thing from reading the typical pop-sci book or business book or whatever, that doesn't generally have exercises. "Learning a subject" to me usually involves using multiple books, videos, articles, maybe writing some code, etc.
As someone who has deep experience of learning from novels and communicating what they have to offer, the alternate protocol you outline for learning from books applies also to novels.
Under the auspices of literature there is much enduring value that readers can glean by reading through once, rereading passages of interest, and synthesizing an interpretation or response.
I think there is a lot more "dark memory" that can be triggered by conversation or the right context.
I also think we translate a lot of the information we read so it integrates with our own understanding or context. For example, I think I better understand why the US responded to COVID like it did after reading US political history from 1970-2020.
Basically, I think humans are very good at detecting, remembering, and applying patterns for our own purposes, and books introduce us to patterns.
I actually agree with that. I think it depends on the nature of the material, how much else you already know about the subject, your intention in reading the book, etc. I was being a little overly general in phrasing it in terms of only walking away with "a vague memory".
I'm not saying we shouldn't, just pointing out that it's not practical to expect that after one causal read through of a book. At least books as they are today. Which leads to...
As I see it, the author's question is: can we create a new medium which affords such active engagement with the works we read more effectively?
That's fair. That, to me, turns the question into "how can we make books that work better?" instead of "why don't books work?" And I think that's a valid and useful question.
To the author's point that books aren't necessarily built around a theory of cognition / learning, and could be improved by incorporating that, I'd say "sure". I'm not at all opposed to the idea of making books better. I was really responding more to the earlier part of the essay, which seemed focused on hammering on the "books don't work" idea.
So the OP apparently thinks a novel construct can do what Yeshivas and Madresehs and Monastaries have been doing the past couple of thousand years.
Now if the OP can come up with an object that makes the user rock back and forth while in a trancelike state, then he probably deserves the academic fame that he clearly desires.
The whole point of TFA is precisely this, combined with questions about how books might be better structured to facilitate a more active role.
I have a mind-blowing insight for you. African tribes have figured this out. The way they teach history is by re-enacting events from myth and history. Those "silly" and noisy dances make a lot of sense.
As Confucius said,
I hear and I forget.
I see and I remember.
I do and I understand.
Participation in a tribal ceremony has the potential to teach history best - with highest chance of remembering.
So for these examples it is my opinion that it's not a case of books not working, but of very healthy brain garbage collector discarding information that is not actionable and in a lot of cases not even correct. Popular edutainment is not exactly "some serious non-fiction tomes".
I've gone on to read more of his work and agree the data is from, "WEIRD societies: Western, educated, industrialized, rich, and democratic." (i.e. a lot of small study groups from ivy league schools) -- but nevertheless found the book enjoyable and useful
I became excited with Jordan Peterson's first videos and bought his book "12 rules" when it came out. I skimmed it and... I'm literally using it as a footrest. Peterson is a powerful speaker but has little content.
Older books:
(a) Have stood the test of time.
(b) Typically arose in a time where intellectual celebrity fermented in core intellectual circles first, and only then popularized.
Kahneman and Tversky have their share of technical contributions but were catapulted to thought leaders (and Nobel-Sveriges Bank prize winners) due to classic tokenism: someone from psychology or behavioral science had to win. The same just happen to someone two rungs below their level, Esther Duflo.
If she comes out with a popular book, don't buy it. Read Polanyi's "The Great Transformation", if inclined to left-ish ideas, or Richard Powers' novel "Gain", otherwise.
I feel like he's looking at this through the prism of his speciality (producing interactive learning materials), and by doing that has missed the point a little bit. He's looking a genre of books at if they're a different thing to what they actually are, it's the wrong level.
I get reading a book once doesn't translate directly to "facts retained in memory" whereas his idealised new form of media does. But as you say, his examples are edutainment. I feel like what he's suggesting only usefully applies to either textbooks (which he's separated off into a different category anyway) or to a situation where the aim is to memorise as much as possible in a single reading. Which is fine! But it doesn't really need to happen for pop science -- just getting the general gist of an idea across in an entertaining package is okay.
I don't think that's true of The Selfish Gene (and even more so for its successor, The Extended Phenotype, as one can tell just from the title). It seems to me to be a serious work on evolutionary biology.
It's not that it isn't serious. Pop science doesn't have to be BS. But it often risks conveying to readers that they have a better grounding than they actually have, which The Selfish Gene has also done. Pop science books are good ways to attract young readers to the sciences and to keep older readers engaged in it, but they are not in and of themselves contributions to the field.
Edit: to go back to original article: memorising the stuff in detail isn't hugely useful -- it's a useful jumping off point to investigate in more detail, but the books basic ideas are easily understood, that's the point
I have read that book, I believe I understood its central message, I could probably explain it (not very elegantly) in a couple of sentences, and I can't point to any other particular benefit I drew from reading the book, and yet I'm very glad I read it.
I get a sense that the author seems to argue that most book authors are not conscious of the working memory of the reader. I don't think that is true. Many "good" non-fiction books I've read actually rely on space-repetitions throughout the text quite heavily. The author, to their credit, does note this for textbooks. Often concepts in long texts are referenced in a non-linear manner, either in expectation of ideas to come or in retrospect to draw parallels & new connections. Unfortunately, the onus here is on the reader to realize and extract the maximum juice out of this non-linear flow.
The key idea of this post is to shift this burden to the "medium" and not the reader. Books can't handle this responsibility in their current form. I certainly agree with this. Distill [1] is pioneering this from the perspective of medium-reader engagement. Unsurprisingly, Michael Nielsen, a collaborator of the author of the post, is a member of the steering committee at Distill. :-)
I love these new directions in dissemination of ideas!
[1]: https://distill.pub
This is beautifully expressed. Knowledge consists of connections across concepts but those connections are rarely shown explicitly in textbooks. Even wikipedia, while allowing you to traverse the connections back and forth easily, does not do a great job of giving you the bird's eye view of a subject or a field. Check out this "map" of mathematics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmJ-4B-mS-Y Every subject needs a similar map.
Besides visualizing the connections, we'd also need interactivity to the topic that helps with forming new mental models - which is the core aspect of learning. Jupyter notebooks, ObservableHQ, Mathigon are some of the good projects working on this aspect.
Disclaimer: I am building the open-source project https://github.com/learn-awesome/learn/ which is attempting to build the complete map of knowledge/skills. So I too am biased against books and in favor of digital/interactive tools.
I often find this sort of approach to be rather counter-productive. If I am learning something, I'd be happy with my local part of the graph, the things that I specifically care about. It is much easier to make multi-hop connections in knowledge when one is really familiar with their local knowledge cluster. I, for one, find an absolute knowledge graph of everything quite intimidating and feel lost in the sea.
LearnAwesome looks interesting. Good luck!
This implies that the purpose of books is to “teach”, but is that so? Books at best “inform”. It is up to the reader to bring the framework for learning, be it the class setting, a study group or just experience enough to self-study.
Not that all book that claim to teach skill actually teach it, but plenty of them do.
I guess a lot of people don’t do that. They skim through a textbook like it’s a boring novel and they make a few notes or they highlight everything or they fill the poor book with sticky notes in a multitude of colours. Anything but doing the exercises! And then is it any wonder why they forget everything a year later?
Indeed, books do not "work." Dedicated students work, and by doing so, they will learn.
But the point remains: Just reading the book, as in consuming page after page, is not enough.
If you read "Guns, Germs, and Steel" and recall nothing but find it 6-9 hours of time well-spent, the book has completely achieved its goal. If you get a couple of good anecdotes out of it that you can use at parties later, even better. Not to mention the social cachet of being an intellectual who reads non-fiction for fun.
This otherwise very intelligent essay falls into a common failure mode I see. If you look out in the world and see everyone obviously "doing it wrong", the odds of them all being stupid while you have sole insight are very slim. Instead, it is most often the case that they are doing it right for a goal that is different from the one you presume they have.
(There is also the obvious criticism that if the author feels linear narrative is a poor medium... why did they use it for their essay?)
He says those books each take "6 to 9 hours" to read. Life changing books are read over the course of...well...an entire life. I have a small handful of books that I have read dozens of times. These are books with very big, and very old, ideas. They have defined my outlook on life, they give me inspiration and ideas in hard times. I have read them in important life transitions at every step. Real wisdom and knowledge comes from years of contemplation of big picture ideas. It's hard, and it's not the kind of thing that you do to look smart. Reading books is just a way of getting through life and trying to make sense of the world - for yourself.
These are definitely pop science books. Like any pop science books, they can reasonably be accused of simplifying their material, favouring a particular interpretation of science that can be looked at in different ways, etc. The underlying science is (like all science) fallible too. But all this is just to say that they're pop science books. That doesn't make them mediocre pop science books, and it seems to me hard to deny that they are all unusually good pop science books.
It's not relevant for this purpose whether all the science turns out to be correct, nor whether Dawkins & Kahneman & Diamond let their own opinions obtrude too much; Matuschak's complaint isn't "I learned all this stuff and some of it turned out to be wrong", it's "I read these books and it turned out I'd learned less than I thought".
It is relevant whether the books present a nontrivial amount of content, whether they're explained clearly and engagingly, whether the ideas in them are (or were when the books were written) at least somewhat unfamiliar to nonspecialist readers. On all those counts, all three of these books do well.
So I don't think he'd have got better results by reading other less-mediocre popular science books. I also don't think the results would have been any better if he'd done the same thing with books on (say) philosophy, or history, or language. The problem is with some combination of (1) what he did and (2) what he hoped to gain from it, not with the particular books he chose.
I do agree that there is a big problem with (1) and (2). If you actually want to learn something then you need to do more than read one book on it; and reading a good book (even if it's what you call a mediocre popular science book) once will do you some good but what it does for you won't be to enable you to expound in detail on its contents at parties.
This brief rehearsal and analysis of the contents will greatly aid comprehension and recall, and the value of the time spent.
You could try it on this very post.
This technique works also with video and audio content, conversations, or any other form of information exchange. Early rehearsal and analysis increases comprehension.
And that’s significant because if you think books don’t create lasting comprehension, try measuring the effectiveness of video, audio, lectures, etc. I’m not aware of a medium that outperforms text, properly read.
Books are mostly not for actually learning a technical subject; they're for reviewing the subject after you already know something, and expanding your knowledge after you have the basics. There are many things I know, and can recall with effort, as they're in long term memory, but can easily recall and apply if I pick up a book and thumb through it for a few minutes. Yeah, I can cook up a nice boeuf bourguignon or pumpernickel bread from memory, but it's gonna go a lot more smoothly if I read the cookbook.
Another thing he misses; if a book makes you feel something, it's going to stick with you a lot more clearly than some recitation of dry facts. Storm of Steel sticks with me better than the official British History of the Great War. Similarly, "Darwinian Fairytales," which is absolutely hilarious in addition to being perfectly correct, sticks with me a lot better than "The Selfish Gene" -which I've paid considerably more attention to.
Reading the books he mentioned, I'm reading them not to know everything word by word. I'm reading them to get a map of that topic. One that would guide me to a narrower source if needed.
To even get more Meta, let's be honest. Blog like this are not really written for the readers. They are written because the author likes that topic. I remember writing my thesis, how I had to use the books in anger to create structure, internalise it and combine them to extract conclusions.
That is also why I like all those shitty blogs about "what is a monad" or "how to deploy a nodeJS app to Heroku". Not because they are the best reads written by the people who knows most about the subject. It's the opposite, I read it and I'm proud of the writers, because I know they are the people that learned something. I'm only there to check what command-line command I need, or what library combination they use.
Looking at books like "thinking fast and slow" I also couldn't get through that book. Needed to pay too much attention that I would rather put on something else. But I think I did learn something. I've learned about trying to be more conscious about instinct and reasoning. I think that still holds up, even though not everything in that book held up to scrutiny.
With this explosion of access to information, it's become very clear that Information is the not bottleneck. It is the balance between intention, grit, pain and pleasure. Go to any writing class, you will learn to think about the goals of the text and your audience.
I will never forget of an example of someone who did Jiu-Jitsu. He talked about the fact that if you play that sport, you'll end up finding the limits of your bones, how much they can take before breaking. Everyone that does Jiu-Jitsu will see it, but seeing is just seeing. You have to experience it. I think the HN readers like to go broad, but I don't think the amount of theoretical knowledge you'll get from your 10.000 cards thick anki Library. As diving deep and using something in anger day in and day out.
Delicious irony. Tell me about this in your text-only blog post.
I was looking for the point that someone who wants to learn needs to engage with the topic in some way, e.g. by teaching others about it, using their own words to summarize the content, etc. Did the author mention something like this at all? I’m sorry if he did, I really love books and I read technical books with a highlighter to mark stuff that is more important than other things. But without typing code from books into the computer, I wouldn’t remember much.
There is an excellent book (as it happens) called How To Read A Book by Mortimer J. Adler. The focus is on how to read for improved understanding rather than pleasure. There are many great ideas and tactics in the book but these are the ones that jump out for me:
- Not all books or even pages deserve to be read at the same speed or with the same care. Being able to identify which is which is a mark of a good reader
- If you don't understand a word or passage, continue through it. Perhaps you will understand it with greater context. Even if you don't, if the book as a whole turns out to be great then you should reread it, and if it doesn't you can cast it aside with little harm.
- An "inspectional reading" (a.k.a. skimming) is a useful tool for understanding what a book is about without dedicating a lot of time.
- Write in the margins. This helps to make a book your own.
That last point has really been a game changer for me. I've generally tried to keep my books "clean" but writing in the margins, underling, etc. incredibly improves 2nd, 3rd, and so-on readings.
In general you can tell if you've properly read a book by seeing if you can answer the the following questions:
-What is the book about?
-What is being said in detail?
-Is it true?
-What of it?
I think it's a neat idea to ask how we could improve books, but the assertion that books don't work remains unproven to me after reading this book (and after my own experience).
Lastly, I think of books as a necessary but inadequate component of much learning. I think Montaigne put it well (btw i read this in a book :)):
> To know by rote, is no knowledge, and signifies no more but only to retain what one has intrusted to our memory. That which a man rightly knows and understands, he is the free disposer of at his own full liberty, without any regard to the author from whence he had it, or fumbling over the leaves of his book. A mere bookish learning is a poor, paltry learning; it may serve for ornament, but there is yet no foundation for any superstructure to be built upon it...
Only update I'd make to those suggestions is moving writing from the margins to external notes. I'd lose so many notes, interesting quotes, or "to look into" things to the margins once I closed the book. Centralizing everything makes it much easier to search for past notes, find related ones, or just completely retrace the skeleton of a book at a glance.
Also, if you read that book in public, get ready for a deluge of strangers making the exact same joke about reading a book about how to read a book.
I do try to do a quick writeup for most books I read (using the questions above). Sometimes they're very detailed... sometimes they're not.
https://landgreen.github.io/physics/index.html Having this website ready before we all had to start teaching online was very lucky.
This is akin to saying that "F = MA so why do I need a whole series of lectures and chapters in a textbook to explain it!" Understanding the basic idea in physics that F=MA involves building a variety of intuitions about what this really means, what it entails in the real world, and how this influences the ways we think about this powerful idea. You need to see examples, experiments and applications of this idea for it to make sense, even though it can be perfectly reduced to 4 characters. Once the student of physics has all of the information in their head a vast amount of complexity can be reduced to F=MA.
An even more powerful demonstration of this is of course Einstein's famous E = MC^2. A pretty simple assertion, but really unraveling what that means and entails is easily many years of study.
On the other end of the spectrum, there are many books that genuinely defy reduction in this way. Hegel and Derrida are notorious examples of these. Scholars of either would tell you that not being reducible is an essential property of what each of these writers is trying to say. However I suspect the author of this post would very quickly become frustrated with these works and beg them to "get to the point!".
And another perspective outside of these are the "Desert Fathers", the early Christian ascetics, who would spend years meditating on single passages from the bible.
> Adult American college graduates read 24 minutes a day on average [0]
If this is referring to actual books (and not just random articles on the internet), that number seems crazy high to me. I would guess the percentage of college graduates that read any book at all during a given day to be something like 5% (As in, even of the ones that read a book or two per year, most days they're not reading), and the average amount of time spread over all adults in this category would be closer to 1 minute than 24. 24 minutes a day would mean serious readers would have to do a lot of reading to make up for the (probably large) numbers of adults who simply don't read at all.
I think it's much more likely that "reading" includes articles on the internet (the big one) as well as newspapers/magazines (probably still significant among the older crows), and far less actual books. Which would sorta invalidate that particular point.
https://billwadge.wordpress.com/2020/02/06/the-secret-of-aca...
> "The temptation is to write papers proclaiming the superiority of your work and the pathetic inadequacy of the contributions of A, B, C, …"
[1] in particular, working memory is not an issue with books: rereading is a thing.
He discusses various tools we have to transmit knowledge from teacher to student and argues that games really shine as away to trick people into 'learning by doing'. He's sharply critical of existing educational games and really lays into 'gamification' as a concept.
The talk certainly left me hearing that echo that the author alludes to.
Books are great.
As a counterpoint to the article which is arguing that Books and lectures don't have a theory of learning and assimilation of information, I think that Video Games as a medium often do. Most games have tutorials or instructions on how to play the game, often introducing novel or complex concepts to the audience that are required to be understood before the work can be enjoyed.
More specifically, I find that exploration and puzzle games tend to exemplify this more than most. They introduce one concept at a time, demonstrate it, allow exploration and 'play' of the concept and perhaps even test the understanding of it before progression is allowed. They also allow for more interesting corollaries and combinations of rules to be presented to the player which may be intriguing, surprising or, appropriately, puzzling.
And of all the puzzle games, it is Jonathan Blow's game 'The Witness' that I feel exemplifies this the best. Having also listened to his commentaries and watched his talks I know that this isn't an accident. In many ways the game itself is a contemplation on knowledge transfer, information assimilation and wordless communication of ideas. This early video [0] shows him talking through the first 10 minutes of the game and how these principles apply to the first two sets of puzzle and the first 'boss' puzzle.
His talk from your comment is also excellent, but I think it's worth highlighting that Blow very much says that video games are a complement to current resources rather than a replacement (as the title might suggest). Video Games allow for a different way to play with certain types of idea that allows for them to be understood on a deeper or more nuanced level. This doesn't necessarily apply to all types of knowledge.
I would also suggest the work of Bret Victor [1], who has some excellent essays and talks on the subject of learning, especially around Maths.
Also honorary mentions to Acko [2] and NCase [3] who create excellent explorables, which I think hint at what a fusion of classroom learning and video games might look like.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDSrYiheVow
[1] http://worrydream.com/LadderOfAbstraction/
1. Take notes while reading, which usually also has the side-effect that you have to re-read passage around your note taking
2. Convert notes to Flashcards utilising SRS (spaced repetition systems like Anki)
Thus all the info you noted and found interesting will go into your long(er)-term memory.
But that's not why we read most books now, is it?
However, when a question is raised relating to something I read, eor a point is stated that conflicts with something that I read, I usually find I can remember where I read about it. Even if I didn't internalize the idea I can look it up pretty easily, and 90% of the time being able to look up something is good enough. So I think whether books work depends on your goal: is it to perfectly internalize something, or to be able to have something you know you can refer to later?
Did anyone get the point behind the title in all that text? But sure, let's bring down the thing that has been the pillar of human knowledge for thousands of years because it's "static". Amazing...
Let's take a book that shaped how I think about the media: "The Powers that Be" by David Halberstam. It's a tome of a book, clocking in at over 700 pages. It is a history and analysis of American media in the 20th century. I cannot recite many anecdotes or facts from it - although it's entirely possible, maybe even likely, that facts and anecdotes related to the media I know are from that book, I just have forgotten that. But it shaped how I think about the media, its various mediums, the power it has, and in particular, its influence on, and relationship with, politics. This "shaping" thing is both nebulous but critical to how we think and understand the world.
Let's take yet another example: the astrophysics courses I took in undergrad. Two semester's worth: one semester on stars, and one semester on everything else in the universe. (Quoth my professor: "And that's reflective of our understanding.") I used to be able to narrate all of the steps of a main sequence star. I no longer can. I can get close, and I can throw out phrases like "hydrostatic equilibrium", but I have forgotten so much from those courses. It's a year of learning! But that is not a waste. My understanding of our solar system, galaxy and universe were shaped by this course, so that I at least can have an intuitive understanding of what we know. This influences how I think about these things, and it influences how I interact with new information about these things.
The answer to “what was that book about” can be a sentence. The answer to “teach me the concepts in that book” can also be one sentence, but it’s the same sentence for every book: “go read the book.”
However, I'm not sure I fully agree with with this essay, specifically the definition of what it means for a book to "work".
Is it necessary to be able to recall a book or a talk? I mean, it is good if you can, but is it a failure if you don't? Perhaps it isn't the fault of the medium. It may be the way our brains are structured. Maybe reading a book changes something subtly, not enough for recall, but a change nevertheless. Like training a neural net with one training example. I know that when I dig out a book that I have put aside several years ago, it seems much more approachable.
I think that reading a book increases your _capacity to receive_, and the more you read similar stuff (or the same thing over again), the more you are able to absorb. There comes a tipping point where you are able to see connections to other things you have read.
I approach books and articles like I approach music: I don't expect to recall much. If I want to recall it, I expect to revisit the material. Either way, the hours spent on it have not been fruitless.
In other areas, I've learned tons about history and other topics, by reading. What other form of knowledge transfer is better? Video? The books I read would fill thousands of hours of video.
For this reason I avoid reading books for the most part, and probably read one book a year at best. My to-read list is short and highly scrutinized - I probably spend days making sure a book is worth the time and memory investment. Once I apply that logic, every book I've read has been extremely rewarding and I can at least write a few thousand word summary of each. I also constantly find instances in real life when I can use anecdotes from these books and people are surprised that I remember them. It also helps that for almost every book I deliberately sought out the best tome in the topic I wanted to learn more from.
My reading list from the past 5 years or so:
1. Making of the atomic bomb by Richard Rhodes 2. Surely you're joking Mr. Feynman 3. On Writing by Stephen King 4. Steve Jobs by Walter Isaccson 5. The Logic of Chance by Eugene Koonin 6. GEB (gave up on this one though)
If you read history written by historians, you get completely different experience. Or if you read "for dummies" series.
For dummies series are not heavy in insights and facts. You have to put non-zero effort and it takes more time to read, but they do good job as introduction for someone who knows nothing. For writing skill, I liked how "Style Toward Clarity" is written. Each chapter contains a rule. You can read the chapter and then try to incorporate that rule into your writing. Once you feel confident, you can move to another chapter. It is not window into genius, but it is readable and rules are easy to apply.
By history from historians I mean for example "Third Reich Trilogy" by Richard Evans or "The Rebelious life of Mrs. Rosa Parks". Both were quite readable. They contained stories that helped me remember what was written in them. I do not remember all the details from them, but apparently I remember enough to catch quite a lot of myths and untruths that are thrown around in forums. I generally remember how Third Reich functioned as a system. I expected the books by historians to be heavy, but they turned out to not be. I read online reviews before buying.
Another group of books that I think made me learn reasonably well were memoirs of (say Jewish survivors), the narratives of escaped slaves like Frederick Douglass and so on. You do end up remembering how the system functioned, probably because human brain is good at remembering stories. You wont remember exact name of this or that character, but it does not matter.
I did read the Feynman one in 4 days though, you can really breeze through it, and because of its entertainment value the ideas really do stick. The Steve Jobs biography took me a lot longer, I really enjoyed it, but it was more something where I picked it up every once in a while over the course of 2-3 months.
However, it seems one-sided: He only talks about the difficulties with reading, ignoring the difficulties with writing.
He also thinks of reading a book as a one-off activity. But in reality, one of the things we learn from reading books is how to read books - we ideally get better over time at the "metacognition" skills that he notes are needed to absorb information from books.
If we look at scientific communication in particular (I know, not what most people are reading for...) these two points interact. Researchers typically try to communicate their findings in the "author describes an idea in words on the page" format because that's the easiest way to do it. Researchers also learn how to absorb information presented in this fashion by other researchers. By definition, research ideas have not been worked over for many years by people skilled at presenting them in an easily-absorbed form. And in any case, it would be rare for the researchers to be particularly skilled at sophisticated methods of presentation. (We hope they do get better at this with time, but they will all have had more practice at reading than at writing, so it makes sense that the joint enterprise of communication will rely more on skilled reading than on skilled writing.)
One might wonder in light of this whether the trend in K-12 education away from the traditional lecture / textbook forms is short-sighted. Once students are out of K-12 (going into higher-level academia, or business, or the military, or whatever), lack of practice at reading traditional material may be a problem.
An engaged reader will do more than just “reading”, but actively comparing the content with own experience, trying to prove or disprove the argument, and sometimes making up stories to help them to memorize the content.
So I would argue it's not books that aren't working, but a certain way of reading that's not working. Books with these techniques externalize part of the engaged reading process, but it may not be the optimal way for a specific person.
For the books that a person themselves can actively engaged in their own way, these techniques can be noisy and redundant.
For those they wouldn't have been actively engaged (like the leisure reading mentioned in the post), these techniques could be useful. But the person doesn't expect to get that much out of the books in the first place.
If I never did that, perhaps I would learn as little from them as the author of this post. But, for textbooks, this almost never happens, and that is probably why textbooks do worse than other non-fiction, even though by his analysis here the reverse should be the case.
Pretty much every textbook (especially introductory ones) is a fact book. They are structured summaries of a field of knowledge, and the goal is to convey as much information as possible. There is no room for extended personal commentary.
An idea book on the other hand does not simply present facts, but fits them in a narrative designed by the author. You don't necessarily obtain the overview of a body of knowledge. It is more like having a long chat with the author, who is preferably an expert in said body of knowledge.
For the learning part, idea books are more effective at getting the "big picture" across, while textbooks require more effort by the reader to either memorize the concepts or see how they fit together at a higher level.
In the end I don't think one can be classifies as more effective than the other since they correspond to different needs.
Consider two AI books, the "Modern Approach" textbook by Norvig and Russell, and "Human Compatible" by the same Russell. A student who wants to do AI research should read the textbook, and spend a lot of time studying it. A layperson who wants to get an overview of the AI field as it stands today, and see what are the possible problems that interest a layperson like himself, should read the latter book, spending much less time than the student.
My edu friends tell me all the time, "different students best learn differ ways." That is, this isn't a books issue per se. It's that there's a difference between (casual) reading and focused repetitive studying.
That said, I find I do better with reading than say video. In fact, I was watching a course on LinkedIn Learning yesterday and I reminded myself how much such videos are not my medium of choice. In addition, I find audio books aren't for me either.
Conclusion: At least with traditional books I can re-read, highlight, photography and so on. Yes, I miss stuff. But learning is hard. We're not wired to absorb _everything_. We're not. That's a good thing.
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While we're on the subject, what's your goto for finding non-fiction books?
Schopenhauer wrote a compelling essay on this topic. I'll link to this article (not by me) which breaks down and discusses that essay.
"It’s important to take time to think about what we’re reading and not merely assume the thoughts of the author. We need to digest, synthesize, and organize the thoughts of others if we are to understand. This is the grunt work of thinking. It’s how we acquire wisdom."
"bla bla bla... more blah...
So let’s reframe the question. Rather than “how might we make books actually work reliably,” we can ask: How might we design mediums which do the job of a non-fiction book—but which actually work reliably?
I’m afraid that’s a research question—probably for several lifetimes of research"
Woah... So tl; dr: author says books don't work because of rigid assumptions about how people learn; Takes tens of thousands of words to say this, and reaches no new conclusion that points anywhere. Woah... upboat.
As an adult I took some Coursera courses and it was much much better. There are problem sets that test your knowledge after 10 minute chunks of lecture, but the biggest difference for me was being able to 2X speed and rewind infinitely.
The ability to speed through the filler and replay parts I didn't understand makes me think that all lectures should be taught like this instead, and professors should just be available for questions and help with problem sets.
The same thing as you do with math/science where you learn by actively engaging with topic.
2. Learn how to learn. Gaining knowledge is like building a fortress. It requires a solid foundation and years of diligence. And it doesnt happen all at once, it is built brick by brick.
3. Know how to cope with your learning style. Visual, Auditory, Verbal, Structural, etc. Go get a full battery IQ test. If you discover you have no talent at visual processing, that could be why reading doesnt work for you.
Further elaboration:
1: A good book is like a dead man talking. The dialogues of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle only survived in written form, because they were good and useful. If you want a modern example, the last good information book i read was "Ignition: An Unofficial History of Rocket Fuel." A little more difficult than the best-sellers, but man thats cool stuff.
2. Knowledge is not something you are going to just "get" by going through the pages. I have read probably tens of thousands of pages of history and politics to get to where I am now: actual knowledge, I can almost predict the news, and frequently do, weeks or months in advance. Think of it like a D&D character. If you put points into "Knowledge: Whatever" every level, eventually you'll get to a +10 bonus where you are correct more often than not.
3. Because the schools are failing at their real jobs, most students never learn how to teach themselves. They require information to be presented, just so, for them to "get it." Different learning styles are coddled and enabled, while refusing to teach critical thinking, dialogue, i.e. how to actually learn and teach yourself. People really do have differing mental abilities. Its why some are lawyers, others are musicians.
Written material will always be the largest share of meaningful information and communication.
I try not to sit on HN logged into Upvotes Anonymous, but this article was so silly I had to. Im learning how to read Hebrew, guess what, from a .... a book! What a world!
Unfortunately, the author's argument has two problems: first, that his definition of "work" is too narrow. No, reading a single book once, or listening to a single lecture, won't inform you or make you understand a broad, complex topic. Second, there isn't really an alternative; it's language or nothing.
The bottom line is that the reader has to put in some work, too, which is the point of the author's suggestions at the end of the article.
The point about lectures is where I disagreed most, and I don’t see it discussed in this thread. The two points that people read much faster than a lecture pace, and people don’t learn well just from reading at full speed, should tell you something. Lectures are designed for active listening and frequently contain questions, pauses for discussion, and desirable difficulty (e.g. I claim something and give you a few seconds to figure out why it’s true).
This is also why prerecorded or YouTube lectures are a game changer. It’s a different medium more like reading notes than like participating in a class.
Memory isn't freeform, it's triggered and asssociative. If I ask you what you were reading a year ago, you probably won't be able to tell me. But if I mention an associated experience or concept, your recall may be triggered and you'll be able to remember something relevant - and talk about it, possibly in some detail.
People are much better at remembering narratives and parable than facts, and also better at remembering practical experience than theory.
Textbooks are useless unless you do the exercises and use your new skills to solve real problems.
But it's also why liberal political and economic books rarely have much political influence.
The right always frames its points as memorable narratives with an emotional kick, not as attempts at objective analysis. The left rarely understands why this matters, or how you can use that one weird trick to persuade people to do all kinds of stupid and self-destructive things.
See also the ad industry, talk radio, QAnon, etc.
One thing that I learned from Gladwell's masterclass notes [1] is giving the reader (or listener in a speech) some candy. Candies are fluffy - but they also help readers/listeners retain more and also share more. Personally I've noticed myself using such candies to broach an idea with someone or a team - and the difference in interest is visible.
[1] - https://taimur.me/posts/notes-from-malcolm-gladwell-s-writin...
I love to read history books, and I'll devour anything Antony Beevor writes. I might not remember exact dates and troop movements, but I will remember the general ideas. The anecdotes only help to drive those ideas home.
The same can be said about the movies I've watched. I rarely remember the plot that well, but I remember how much I enjoyed them, and occasionally some good lessons.
I've also had some fascinating conversation that I simply can't recall. They still shaped how I see the world.
I first skim the entire book. This gives me a rough idea of its structure. I then read the first chapter. Then I reproduce what I can remember from memory. Usually it's very little. Then I re-read the chapter and reproduce it from memory again. This time, I remember quite a lot. The third time, I have a very good understanding of it. Rinse and repeat for each chapter.
Something strange happens when you do this. I urge everyone to try it. There's some sort of subconscious restructuring going on; an implicit compression of the material. Somehow, it has become organized without your explicit involvement.
This is my theory of what's going on: you are incrementally improving a cognitive model of whatever it is that you are reading. You start off with a rough set of expectations. When you re-read the material for the first time, you have a basis for comparison. Expectations get violated. Beliefs get updated. The learning rate is high. With each re-read, you get diminishing returns.
This method is time-consuming, so I only use it when I have to. But it works. And it's much more efficient than flash cards.
When you have built up enough ground to place your main point into the readers brain, the supporting facts become less important to remember (barring one or two evocative examples) so they fade away, but you still have the meta knowledge of your brain having read and vetted the supporting arguments/examples, which you wouldn't have if the whole book was just the main point without all the surrounding detail.
For all these elongated pamphlets we could read, could we instead get a collection of related pamphlet-length core theses? Is there a model to that?
And at least for non-fiction books, one implied
assumption at the foundation: people absorb knowledge by
reading sentences. This last idea so invisibly defines
the medium that it’s hard not to take for granted, which
is a shame because, as we’ll see, it’s quite mistaken.
By this notion I won't learn anything from this post, either.A book exists as a subset of a language--it itself can be considered a language itself--the way the words interact and how they relate is more important than any particular within. Taking something out of a book doesn't meaning learning some particular order of symbols contained within--it's about learning the language and how all the symbols relate. You could even extend that to identifying that language in the future and generating it themselves as well.
So you get content where the information density is very low, which happen to be some books. I hate to compare this article to, but essentially it's identified the idea of information entropy and still misses the fact that knowledge and understanding are not a bucket of facts but rather a model. The author spits this out verbatim but it's obvious given the language the author is using his understanding of this topic is very low. The author seems to be quantifying knowledge, but really it's quite hard to quantify knowledge in and of itself but rather it's important to judge knowledge in relation to other knowledge--hence information density. I think a lot of people simply read a book for the journey and not to take something out--and just because there's no conscious summary in their head doesn't mean they've not learned or that it's not changed their entire lives, in fact, since understanding by definition is an unconscious process.
If learning well is simply absorbing knowledge quickly and retaining it then count me out--I don't want to absorb random facts and symbols which have no practical use in relation to the objects and symbols and things I use in this world.
So the author misses the point of learning, and constructs a giant strawman (using a long-form argument, strangely) about how books don't "work" in the sense that they don't necessarily give you any knowledge at all! I agree, but I'll definitely still be reading them.
I imagine this is harder to do for the class of books he mentions which don’t really get built on or reinforced except when you try to recall them to a friend.
In particular, I think hardly anyone really needs to know quantum mechanics well enough to do homework?
It seems like before testing effectiveness, you need to determine what subset of your audience shares the goals you assume. Often, it's only going to be a small fraction.
Books are neat because not only can you read them to gain information, but when you forget stuff, as your squishy brain is wont to do, you can easily refresh your memory using the book. If it's a well organized one, this isn't even particularly hard or slow. Books are low-tech enough to be rather durable and to not need any special equipment to be read -- just eyes and a brain. Even writing to a book requires minimal equipment.
Books will be here long after you, I, and whatever we cook up to replace them are gone.
The non fictional books, especially the self helping/improving one, tend to be very diluted. whatever the reason is. This is naturally in conflict with the reader purpose: extracting value in the fastest way possible.
That is probably why apps like Blinkist or 'OneBookADay' have quite some success. This, by no mean, is to say that books are not an amazing format for the vast majority of content they are being used today, and for the past 700 years.
If you were to take an important exam will you just read the text from start to finish or will you also take notes, analize, discuss, memorize, etc?
Maybe those books are specifically bad? I haven't read them, but I had long monologues about some historical books I read giving people basically lectures on topic.
And my brain recalls facts and situations from them when it is associated in unrelated discussions too.
Who needs to remember more than the general idea of guns, germa, steel or darwinian memes in their life?
People who prosper from retaining a broad general knowledge tend to remember it better. I don't see the failure to instill articulated memories, people read books they don't need to consciously recite.
Just looking at the spine or the cover of a book that I really enjoyed gives me a feeling of connection and strength. That is recall - it’s just not total recall.
Total recall is nice too. That’s why I keep the books I read on the shelves in my house.
Does the author of TFA not have bookshelves? They are an excellent companion product to books.
If you don't enjoy reading books, you don't have to read them.
Also see the Feynman Technique: https://fs.blog/2012/04/feynman-technique/
Extending from that, it seems a bit presumptuous to assume that a single book might then be able to convey all there is to any topic due to its size (compared to, say, listicles), given that reading itself is one of the most basic skills and one that - as we've seen - cannot generally be taught with a single book.
What books can do is expose you to some idea, in some form, so that you can soak up something from it and adopt it into your own mental framework. Pop culture / self-help books will often try to "sell" a central idea by showering you with stories and anecdotes (e.g. the 1-2-3 system in parenting books), but if you have the presence of mind to already understand that the examples are merely an attempt to add weight to an argument, then you can quickly summarize the meat (the "1-2-3", in this case) and think for yourself whether/when to apply that technique, vs other techniques that you might learn elsewhere.
There's a slippery slope in terms of how many core ideas one may pack in a book, vs how many supporting arguments one may add around the core idea. Add too many core ideas and you get something like a dry university textbook. Add too little, and you get books like Malcolm Gladwell. Mind you, having a lot of "frills" doesn't necessarily make a book bad. For example, many consider Godel, Escher, Bach to be a great read, even though [spoiler] it can be promptly summarized as an exploration on occurrences of recursiveness (through very colorful allegory). The beauty of GEB is that the supporting stories themselves give you a glimpse of new domains to explore.
At the end of the day, just like a library is a collection of disparate nuggets of human knowledge and no one's expected to uniformly learn all of it, books are but pieces of an ecosystem, with various degrees of "completeness" (as far as their core subjects go) and various degrees of flair; what one chooses to read or skim, and what they take away individually from each book is what the relationship between humans and books are all about.
QCVC periodically inserts spaced repetition exercises that prompt the reader to recall arbitrary facts about what they just read. The authors even seem to be aware that mere mnemonics won't be enough, e.g., when they write:
> I am, by the way, somewhat uncomfortable with some of the questions just asked. My personal experience is that spaced-repetition learning works well when learning facts I have a lot of context for, and care a lot about. It’s a rare person who finds the detailed entries in a unitary matrix fascinating! That’s not to say they aren’t – actually, they are, but you need a lot more context than I’ve provided to see why (for instance) that -i−i in the YY is just so darn interesting.
Is lack of recall the problem or a symptom of the problem? If we want to learn about ants, should we start by drilling a million ant facts? Focus on building recall around all the categories of ants and their geography?
Sorry, why do we care about Hadamard gates?
All the "fixes" to this are squarely in the domain of books-as-books: better organization, better scaffolding, better sequencing of concepts, etc.
I think Quantum Country is extremely well made and an interesting idea, but come on: The idea of interspersing text with exercises is hardly revolutionary.
In physics (which is my background) a regular textbook consists of chapters which each present a smaller topic followed by a bunch of exercises you should solve. The way you work through the book is by solving the exercises. Everyone knows that just reading the text is not enough. The author usually writes explicitly in the introduction that "the only way to learn this is to work through the exercises".
A good book will have exercises which require understanding a mixture of the earlier chapters as well. Most of the exercises will focuses on what's new in _this_ chapter, but suddenly you need calculate some "basic" formula that was presented early on. Textbooks don't use spaced-repetition as described by SuperMemo, but they use many similar techniques.
The page you linked to is enormous (91 pages printed it seems; although that's with a pretty big font) and looking through it seems to have 17 "exercises" and that is including some very basic ones as "What's the standard notation for the NOT gate?". How can they claim that it's not "learning from text" when they have a way bigger text-to-exercise ratio than any textbook I've read?
Well, ok, so how do you rapidly create context?! Well-written, well-framed, and well-sequenced exercises are great at that, especially if there's a healthy feedback loop.
So does readers' attention. It's like he never got to the point. I was expecting some revelation about how he reads books, or how books should be read, or what is a better replacement for books... couldn't past a quarter of that post.
I feel author should have also explained how did he read those books.
Without knowing that, it's hard to see how exactly things didn't work.
Such a boring take on books.
Unfortunately this approach is way too expensive and doesn't scale which is why we have all sorts of tech to distribute knowledge (books, classes, lectures, blogs, videos, etc).
I imagine 100 years from now we will have AI teachers that can reproduce the one-on-one experience.
I fear this kind of mentality because when you don't want to solve your own problems, you will get external forces to fix your problems. Like, say, the government, in the form of passing too many laws.