Twister OS: Make Raspberry Pi Look Like Windows or macOS | Hacker News Reader

Twister OS: Make Raspberry Pi Look Like Windows or macOS

twisteros.com

150 pointsyboris64 comments

a couple of things that jumped out at me:

> Is Twister OS a 64-bit OS?

> Twister OS is a 32-bit OS.

> Why is Steam not starting for me?

> Sadly Valve will be dropping 32-bit support and due to this poor discision on their part we've had no choice but to discontinue support for Steam on Twister OS.

twister os might want to consider dropping 32bit support themselves, especially given that their minimum requirements are a pi4.

The Steam thing looks like a separate issue from whether Twister OS is 32- or 64-bit. They're running the x86 version of Steam in an emulator, and that emulator probably only supports 32-but software.

Do the games run in an emulator, too?

This is exactly it. They're using box86 [ https://github.com/ptitSeb/box86 ] which allows you to run x86 but not x86_64 Linux programs on ARM Linux.

box86 runs fine in a 32bit chroot.

But, really, it's strange that box86 rejects aarch64. Most aarch64 chips can easily run 32bit arm code, and so ... why not?

box86 runs x86 binaries in an emulator that translates syscalls and library calls to native syscalls and library calls. The JIT compiler they're using and the syscalls tables are specifically for 32 bit x86, and because they're simply passing calls through the host system must match both endianness and word size, so running a 32 bit x86 executable requires a 32 bit little endian host.

ARMv8 can run in either 32 bit "aarch32" or 64 bit "aarch64" modes, and both require separate runtimes, as does 32/64 bit x86. So you need 32 bit ARM libraries for box86's translation to work.

It could be updated to support 64 bit executables, but that would be an amd64/x86_64 -> aarch64 translation layer. Doing 32 -> 64 bit or vice versa is much, much harder, and requires manual translation of calls for specific libraries and kernels to be done, as nested binary data is passed in some library/syscalls that needs to be converted.

They could also package and ship a 32bit chroot and do no translation.

Why would steam drop 32 bit? Almost every game only has 32 bit binaries.

I believe they run under streams proton implementation.

I wonder if it has anything to with https://www.electronjs.org/blog/linux-32bit-support

I work for one of the largest game developers/publishers out there and literally all of our games are built and released for x64. I don't even remember last time we built x86 binaries of any of our games.

What games from the last 10 years only have 32-bit binaries?

Moonlighter. Fallout: New Vegas. Renowned Explorers. Anno 2070. It's more common but not a sure thing still.

Almost all modern games are release in 64-bit. It does kill the ability to load a bunch of older games easily..

There are millions of perfectly fine 32-bit ARM boards out there that draw a fraction of the power that a similarly spec'd x86 box would.

It would be a good thing, from the perspective of not wasting energy nor creating more e-waste, for 32-bit ARM boards to be supported for people who own them.

but this OS is targeting, at a minimum, a 64bit board, not a 32bit board.

Good point, I missed this.

Wow, there are a lot more features in this thing than the website says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaSujCZFIgs

I wish they'd explain more on the website on what this offers, how it's configured and etc.

cool! i didn't realize until i watched this video that looks were such a dominant factor making me amenable to making a switch to such an os

Ditto. Why did they use the least compelling screenshot on the homepage? The other macos theme is way more like the original. Spotlight search, notification center, dock, etc.

There's more screenshots, you can go through them.

Possibly they did not want the attention of the legal departments at two very large companies given they developed GUIs that look very similar to their IP?

What window manager is this, and are the themes available outside of TwisterOS?

This might actually be a good WM for Ubuntu desktop!

On my Pi I don't take a crap about how it looks, I usually disable the GUI anyway for efficiency in IOT and robotics projects.

The other day I learned about a thing called “trade dress” while reading up on the seizure of the OnePlus earbuds as “counterfeit Apple AirPods” by the US Customs.

And now I’m wondering how all these theming things that make one OS look like another are not violating trade dress protection.

Can anybody shed some light on the topic? I wouldn’t be surprised if this is enforceable in some jurisdictions and not in others.

This looks great, but why is it a whole OS image and not just a set of themes?

Marketing!

Also probably ease of install for newbies.

Been using it for the kids to get acquainted with MacOS/Win but also terminal. They found the win95 theme and refuse to change it now

Looks great! Are you aware of anything that gives a macOS look-and-feel to Ubuntu Desktop?

Like a dock and menu bar? Tint2 for the dock. I believe Cairo dock is also an option. Polybar for the top bar.

Keep in mind that achieving specific looks often requires tons of time in configuration and hunting down specific tools or fixes. For instance, rounded corners might be a feature of your WM, your compositor or a combination of both. Some stuff will only work correctly if you’re using the right DE while others will only work if you use no DE at all.

Thanks, not heard of Tint2 or Polybar before, will check them out.

You may be interested in elementary os[1]. All their stuff is oss, though I don't know how easy it would be to use it on ubuntu.

1. https://elementary.io/

It’s just add a ppa (ppa:elementary-os/stable) and sudo apt-get install elementary-desktop.

Do note that the stable PPA does not have releases for 20.04 (focal). You'll have to use the daily to try it out on 20.04 based distributions.

Chicago95 for those who run XFCE and just want the best of the looks...

https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95

That's one of the best-looking Windows 95 themes for Linux I've seen. I like that they made the deviations from the actual 95 layout feel at home.

Wow, super impressive. May have to set this up on my dualboot!

Just tried it and got a kernel panic on a Pi4 at first boot. Damn it really looked nice on the website

Did the kernel panic look like a BSoD or a macOS kp as well? :P

Really nice effort.

The question is though: why? :)

But cool nonetheless

I'll answer your question with a story. My grandfather used to use Internet Explorer. I tried to get him on Chrome, but he refused to even open it since it was "too difficult".

One day I removed IE from the desktop and changed the icon of Chrome. He now uses Chrome and I sleep better knowing he's using a more secure browser.

Brilliant.

That is cool! Seems like it opens up the possibility for easy GUI customization too.

neat

I thought this meant that Twister was so barebones it would make Raspberry Pi look like a heavyweight desktop OS.

I mean. On the Windows side, you can actually try out the real Windows 10 on your Raspberry Pi and actually run full x86 Windows programs on it. [0]

So looking at this, it is more like a re-heated version of Lindows.

[0] https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/02/09/heres-how-windows-1...

Exactly. raspberry pi is a hardware platform - if you want it to look like Windows you can run Windows

I don't get these sorts of "make X look like Y" products (Twister OS isn't the only one out there).

You can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter.

A Pi is always going to be a Pi. Its always going to be a Linux thing (Debian IIRC).

If you want Windows, buy a PC.

If you want macOS, but a Mac.

But to me at least there's very little point indeed making the UI look sort of, maybe, like Windows or macOS if the UX is going to still be Linux.

> You can't polish a turd.

You can[1].

I think projects like this are a good step to/from familiarity. "Oh, it looks like what I'm accustomed to, maybe I can learn this..." or "I'd really like something small on which to emulate my desktop of choice, but it's not available on the small device, maybe I can start from here..."

1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI

Problem is even though it looks familiar it feels anything but. I spent a considerable amount of time making my work Linux environment feel (I don't care mucht about the looks) like my Mac at home, Things like keyboard shortcuts, terminal application, spotlight, expose window movement, etc. Because I just don't want to keep adjusting my workflow between two different systems. But it's really hard to get it done completely or find a common middleground that works effectively on both systems.

If I’m going to use something extremely low powered that has graphical abilities, then at least i’d like it to look nice.

If you're used to X, and can make Y look and function like X, this is useful. It can also be fun, which by itself is useful. Important project? Subjective.

I tend to make a lot of apps Solarized. E-mail (Mutt/Postbox), Sublime/Vim, iTerm, even HN, for example are all Solarized (dark to be precise). That's also different than the original UI.

Also, for some machines there's no macOS (very high end, and embedded like this one). Hackintosh has its drawbacks, and doesn't exist for ARM.

Regarding Windows, there have been UIs for *NIX which looked like a version of Windows since ever since I started using Linux (RedHat 5.2 somewhere end of 90s).

I use Solarized everywhere, largely because it is generally available for almost every developer tool and it is dead-simple to do light/dark mode setup. However, this is completely different than theming an OS to look like another you use: the amount of work to even get something basic is significantly more, and usually the end result sucks regardless.

> A Pi is always going to be a Pi. Its always going to be a Linux thing (Debian IIRC).

Or any compatible Linux Distro: openSUSE, Ubuntu, Windows for IoT, and so on....

I don't understand why people make comments like this. Not that I'm offended or anything. I don't care much for this theming myself. But...that's what personal preference is? There's nothing to get. It's like saying "I don't get why people like dark chocolate. I don't like dark chocolate. Just eat cocoa powder if you want to avoid milk and sugar".

It's like the most information-sparse comment someone could make. I can't do anything with it. "Some rando on the Internet doesn't like this". Cool.

Have to agree with this. It’s part of why I stopped going on Reddit so much, because seeing that kind of attitude was affecting how I viewed things. I mean, imagine if you were talking face to face with someone and they responded with that amount of negativity. It’d kill the conversation and the mood.

Anything that gets to get to the truth of the matter -- which is that the vast majority of the effort spent by developers and programmers on Window Managers and Desktops and Desktop Managers is mostly a waste of time.

Obviously, people can choose to spend their time how they want -- but I really wish more would consider the possibility that there's entirely too much energy spent on small changes related to just the tiny amount of time between "turning on the computer" and "starting your real work or fun in an application."

I think you are right for a lot of tasks. However, some tasks, arguably more and more for a modern developer, unfortunately involve switching between many different applications and browser tabs. A decently fast programmer will have to spend some time finding the best way to manage this in a way they can both release some working memory and switch quickly. Now, I personally don’t believe that’s worth designing my own windows manager. But I will simply be thankful for those that do.

I 100% agree -- which is why the WM space needs to be more like the "text editor" space and less KDE + Gnome et al trying to be the next Apple OS.

Make a WM (or two or ten) that one can customize to their hearts content and accept that people will customize it, e.g. Vim, Emacs, Atom, Sublime etc.

The key difference is the aggressive backwards compatibility and/or "customary use" breakage, supposedly in the name of user experience. Your Vim today will 100% work like your Vim tomorrow. Your Gnome today is going to break in some way eventually.

Very good points. I need a find an OS independent WM. My mix of BetterTouchTools, Alfred, Karabiner for Mac versus some AutoHotkey and PowerToys for Windows is quite the pain and, as you say, liable to break at any update. Any suggestions?

Let me help.

I worked as a developer using a Mac since 2006. My workflow was defined by it. Prior to that, I was a Linux guy. But back then the Linux UI was just terrible.

In 2018, I convinced my company to get me a system76 laptop. Pop_os is Ubuntu based.

I spent days getting my workflow to where I wanted it. Yes manually getting gnome how I want it is possible.

Right now I switched to elementaryOS because I get 95% of my flow out of the box.

I am not looking for a clone of OSX but I want general concepts to be the same. ElementaryOS is considered to be copying OS X.

I wanted out of the hardware that Apple required but their UI is top notch. So yeah, I picked a Linux distro that copies a lot of OS X

Thanks for the thoughtful comment -- I thought about using elementaryOS a while back but got cold feet. How do you like it compared to OSX? Are there any missing killer features you wish it had?

> A Pi is always going to be a Pi. Its always going to be a Linux thing (Debian IIRC).

Well it 'can' run a real version of Windows 10 [0] and can run unmodified x86 Win32 programs natively, so at least that is a valid option much better than a skinned up Linux distro.

> If you want Windows, buy a PC.

Hence with the Pi also being able to run Windows 10 (Desktop), you can have it both ways.

[0] https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/02/09/heres-how-windows-1...

All you do is make it look worse. When you try a Mac look on Linux e.g. there are too many jarring inconsistencies that makes you go crazy.

I think themes made specifically for Linux tends to work better.

You have to work within the confines of the system you are on.

Why did so many tech firms move from monolithic SSR to API + SPA over the past decade?

It's not the right choice for everyone or everything, but making the backend and frontend modular is useful, because it lets you create different UIs that do the same backend operations.

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