A Thai national park is mailing trash back to tourists
washingtonpost.com
washingtonpost.com
After one Midsummer some years ago, one of the rangers found a bunch of garbage laying around after some careless people's celebration. Among the beer cans, bags, leftovers and other litter, he found someone's name and number; I'm pretty sure one of them had literally left their business card. He proceeded to gather all of the trash in a garbage bag, looked the guy up, drove into Stockholm (some 40 km), rang the fool's door and handed over the trash while saying something like "Hey, I think you forgot some of your belongings!"
Edit: just found out from the Archipelago Foundation's Instagram that today is the international clean the coasts day!
Business cards aren't free to make, you make them with intent to give them out to people.
More plausible scenario was that someone who had received the card just threw it away.
The important thing is that the trash was removed, after all.
'jrootabega on the other hand straight up accuses me of lying to seem interesting and score internet points, which I think is pretty lousy.
Meanwhile, the trash is gone and everybody's happy! Now I'm going out to kill a couple of roosters with my uncle.
Well except for those roosters, they're in bird heaven now.
I got curious about your nick by the way, does it refer to rutabaga?
Depending on depth of social shaming for littering, there could be real consequences.
But once someone left their old mail. With their address. The sheriff was happy to give the offender a call and request that they clean up the mess, or else.
I fully support this kind of operation.
I fully support this policy, and I hope it gets implemented in more parks around the world.
If any of those things are missing, it seems like it would be easy and cheap to disenfranchise any person, regardless of actual guilt.
For what it's worth, I very much despise anyone who litters or damages parks, and hope they are caught and punished properly.
So it is not just an English thing.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Scandinavian-law#ref469034
Well.. they got it from Germany and France who got it from England.
https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/advisories/overview-of-the-c...
I think I’ve heard the suggestion before that drive throughs should be forced by law to print the license plate details on all packaging so that it can be traced back to the driver who left it.
If that’s not enough and the retailer can’t get that right I would say that you’re taking a know risk going to that drive through.
Avoid them and I the market will make the process reliable.
If they get my license plate wrong, that's basically a license to litter with impunity.
The onus should on the company CEO. One day in jail for each mistake they make.
How do you think they enforce the paying of the fee?
Reminds me of a story...this one guy I met had his car impounded because he forgot to pay a ticket he got on a bicycle (when the headlight requirement was new) so they suspended his license which caused him to drive around for years without a license. Pretty sure they had a bench warrant out for him too so they hauled him off to jail.
I’m fine with extremely hefty fines for those who happen to get caught. I’m not fine with fines based on such flimsy evidence as a printed wrapper.
The offender is a Thai person, that’s why the garbage was deliverable by postal mail. Doubt that the national park would pay for international mail. Their budgets are very tight. Also foreigners are not asked for their home address. The ranger just noted down the ID card number of the person who rented the tent.
Furthermore the entry to Thailand is very restricted and NO foreign tourists are yet allowed to enter. So no it wasn’t a foreign tourist.
Anyway majority of tourists in Thai national parks are Thai nationals. Considering that they charge foreigners 5-12x more for entry it isn’t a surprise.
Please don’t state details that weren’t part of original article. In this case it strengthens xenophobia.
Edit: typo and corrected addressing the commenter above
That being said, tourists visiting national park such as Kao Yai are better behaved than in some beach locations. Also Kao Yai entry fee is about $15, which is affordable for foreigners (who are plenty there in regular times).
A Thai person pays entrance fee of 40 THB (1.29 USD). This is regardless if they are poor or rich, if they pay income tax or not.
A foreigner who for example lives in Thailand, and who pays income tax, still has to pay 400 THB (12.9 USD) entrance fee. That’s 10x more. Pure discrimination.
Let’s say an average foreigner family of 4 (2parents, 2children). That’s 2x 400 THB and 2x 200 THB incl vehicle 50 THB. 1250 THB.
A rich Thai family of 4, pays 2x40 THB, 2x 20 THB and 50 for vehicle. Total 170 THB.
You don’t decide what’s affordable for foreigners or not.
Not every foreigner is rich. Lots of expenses are higher for foreigners, many venues and restaurants charge higher prices to foreigners. Rental is often higher for foreigners,...
Not all foreign tourists are rich either. Many save the whole year to afford a two weeks trip to Thailand with their family.
National parks that charge them 10x more, restaurants that charge 2x more etc aren’t helping with welcoming foreigners.
If you do feel that paying 10x more is justified because it’s little money to you, why not sponsor not so well off foreigner families who wish to visit Thai national parks.
A lot of Thai people are poor, much poorer than the tourists who visit their country. I'm glad if they can have access to their national park.
I agree it's not the most fair situation for expats living in Thailand with Thai wages, but it's the compromise they have found, and I don't think there is a big scandal here.
Thailand is a very welcoming country for foreigners, and really I think they tolerate a lot of crap from tourists.
The Thai government has increased prices for Thai citizens and reduced price for foreigners for exactly that reason at Doi Inthanon. And also because foreigners dont appreciate being ripped off.
There is huge online movement against dual pricing of foreigners in Thailand. You might not have heard about it.
Yes its precisely Thailands business. Thailands tourism industry revenue comes 2/3rds from foreign visitors. A discriminatory surcharge harms the tourism industry, and other countries in SEA proved that by making such practices illegal.
Thai people aren’t charged double or 10x more to enter national parks in other countries just becuase they are Asian :) its illegal there, its called discrimination.
Filipino and Malay people get Thai price at national parks in Thailns, because they look similar to Thais. So its then racism if caucasians get charged 10x more.
Would you think it fair if foreign operated business in Thailand charge their Thai customers 2-10x as much as foreign customers? It would be a big scandal if they did.
Overcharging foreigners is also a big scandal. Check social media. Its being reported on a daily basis and its bad for reputation of Thailand. Tourism Authority of Thailand thinks its not fair to charge foreigners more.
Not sure why you think discrimination is ok.
A fair equal price would bring more visitors :) im sure of that.
On a trip to a national park nearby my Thai friends were shocked that i would get charged 10x as much. Each of them gave extra money to pay for my ticket. Not because I couldnt afford it. But because its discrimination.
Since then we visit national parks less often. Not because we cant afford it. But because it feels bad to be discriminated against. It ruins the experience at such places. There are lots of other beautiful places to explore in Thailand, for free, with good Thai friends.
Edit: just to add, now that Thailand does not allow foreign tourists entering the country due to Covid, relying on tourism by expats living here has become much more important. The revenue generated by Thai tourists traveling to other parts of the country has brought occupancy in hotels just to 10%. Thats not counting those hotels/guesthouses/restaurants that already closed forever.
Edit2: embarrassing typos
I'm not saying it's great and perfect. But I get where they're coming from and I'm not shocked.
I've spent quite some time in Thailand and I've seen the amount of poverty there. A lot of Thais work very hard for barely nothing, and they don't have the social nets we have in developed countries. With that in mind, I can understand Thai citizens have different rights than foreigners when accessing public goods. It's no big deal to pay $15 (cheap by western standard). And if it's cheaper for Thai people who can't afford it, I'm more than happy to help, considering I'm lucky being born in a rich country. If it was $15 for everybody, most Thai people couldn't visit their parks. And I don't know if they would be able to maintain their parks without that money.
By the way, there is more discrimination coming from developed countries than the opposite. I had Thai friends who wanted to visit Europe or the US. They had to apply for visas, which were expensive and sometimes denied with no reason. It was very stressful and humiliating for them.
Even now in deep financial crisis (no covid within Thailand at the moment) people get food donations. People who have more created cabinets where poorer people can pick up food for free. Its not pretty but it works. People donate to orphanages so children dint starve. Yes. No social net for them either.
Well we cant blame foreigners and their social nets, charging them 10x more because Thailand hasnt made sufficient social coverage from taxes is still discrimination.
Most Thai people in Thailand pay no income tax. VAT is 7%. Every foreigner working in TH must pay income tax - which is fine - they live there. But foreigners cant finance the social security system alone :)
Lets say some european country charges 20% VAT, and for average worker 35%+ income tax. Not to count higher municipal taxes for water, electricity, garbage collection. This is what pays for national parks. For social security, for good education, for better roads. For Thai tourists entering the same national parks at same price like local residents because anything else would be discrimination and is illegal. And youre welcome.
As for those Thai people who are very very poor (in Thailand). They usually dont go to national parks because the transportation and food there would be too expensive even with the cheaper entrance fees. They go to local forests or rivers instead. They pick mushrooms, hunt wildlife e.g fish and lizards to eat. Ive seen this first hand. They hitch a ride fromm their village to nearest “town” on the back of someones truck as the regular “passenger truck” is out of their financial reach. Still, overall they have a good life, they grow some crops or keep animals. They live usually with extended family closeby, spend time with family and friends and are happy.
The fact that a part of Thai population is poor does not justify discrimination of foreigners.
Most Thai people at big Thai national parks come with nice cars (which even i could not afford). If the poorer are lucky to get to a national park, then the whole family rides huddled on the back of a pickup truck, no safety belts or seats.
Lol visa discrimination. I do agree that many countries made it harder to obtain visa. And so has Thailand. Simply because some people all over the world abuse visa regulations and the good folks suffer because of the changes.
My friend from USA has also to apply for his tourist visa at Thai embassy. And he has to pay for it too. There are often hurdles for that.
Foreigners are denied visas or visa extensions. Sometimes for silly buerocratic reasons. And you wouldnt believe how often the reasons change. Very stressful and humiliating.
Every year, a foreign friend has to extend his business visa. He has legitimate business, with employees, pays all required salary taxes and company profit taxes etc. He loves Thailand and has a family. One year, after waiting for hours in queue at immigration he was told they cant accept his visa extension application.
Why? Because the revenue department issued official tax payment receipt is not accepted anymore without a separate additional stamp from revenue department to make it “official”.
Nobody told him before, so he lost half a day just to have to go back to revenue department to get a stamp on their officially issued tax receipt which makes it “more official”.
Then he has to go back to queue at immigration and after hours of waiting, gets told by officers that this year they require some additional documents. Nobody told him before. If they accept the application he gets 1 month extension only while they check his documents and he has to come back before expiration of that month to receive final approval or rejection of his application.
What if there is recession? A foreigner orperated company in Thailand must have 25% profit. Otherwise he cant extend his visa. A payment of profit tax is required. :) Businesses operated by Thai citizens arent required to make profit. (That foreigner still has to pay 10x more at national parks, lol)
So every year, he submits his visa extension and if they dont approve it, he has 7 days to leave the country. What about his Thai wife and children, car he bought, house they rent, all belongings? He cant afford to fly them overseas and get visas for them, plus a job for his wife, school for kids etc.
Life overseas is x times more expensive. Just becuase someone has higher salary overseas than a Thai person in Thailand doesnt mean that they have more money left at end of month.
At the same time in Thailand, an educated Thai person with some expertise in their field gets same salary as a foreigner with equal expertise. If not even more :) companies are reluctant to hire foreigners due to paperwork and revenue department scrutiny involved. If a small company hires more than 2 foreigners their company income tax doubles. This goes wirh the fact that for every foreigner hired they must hire 4 Thai employees.
Did i mention that foreigners have to check in every 90 days at immigration to report that they still live on same adress? (Even if they havent moved in 15 years, sounds a bit ridiculous, right?). If youre late for the 90 days report thats 2000 baht fine. If you forget and they caught you its jail and 4000 Baht.
Additionally if my friend leaves the country e.g. on a business trip to Vietnam or to visit parents in home country, upon return to the same house in Thailand in which he lived for years, he must be reported by landlord within 24h at immigration that he returned to that same house. Never mind the fact that he entered the country through immigration and had to fill in a form where he will be staying.
If the landlord doesnt want to go make the report (happens if they didnt disclose the rent as income), the person who is fined is the foreigner (2000THB) becuase he is the one who has to have that report paper. Furthermore without that landlords report, the foreigner cant make the 90 days report or visa extension etc at immigration. Imagine how humiliating that is.
If the foreigner decides to take vacation within the country, the guesthouse/hotel has to report him to immigration within 24h. Then after return home upcountry the landlord must do the same report agin within 24 hours.
By law a foreigner who leaves the registered place of living and stays overnight somewhere else has to go to nearest immigration or police station and report himself to be there now, within 48h. Also when he returns to same registered place of living he has to make same report that he is now back. Thats besides the fact that the landlord has to make the same report on different form as outlined above.
There is one worthwile category of foreigners to mention. People from certain countries have to make a request at local immigration or police station and apply for permit if they want to travel outside the district. Without that approval they arent alowed to leave, lol, lets say to visit the national park in other district of same province. If they get caught without that permit to travel within country, they face fines and deportation. And humiliation.
This last group of foreigners is often the lowest paid group of people, even less than Thais. So no not all foriegners can afford your $12.9 to enter national parks at discriminatory prices.
Now while it may look all bad, i have to say that most foreigners who live in Thailand are happy to be there and love the country. They just dont like the discrimination and being ripped off :) if you know what i mean.
Where I have lived in the US many public services charge more for people who aren't residents of the area.
Alcohol
Why does there have to be a means for the government to mail the trash back to the people, if just imagining the trash being mailed to them causes them to stop leaving trash?
I doubt you are going to leave trash, and the reason why is because you are asking hard questions of an illusion.
There are even several groups in the northwest whose members would likely join me in that. But how do we make this work?
Attaching any, material, negative incentive to littering is quite hard to do and I’m sure society will greatly benefit from any solid ideas as to how.
So we sometimes take strolls before packing up just to find some trash. Sadly we almost always do. Sometimes people just dump entire bags of trash on a hill, like wtf did they expect to happen with that? So short sighted.
Not short sighted at at all. It had exactly the effect they desired: no trash to take home.
People quite often do things with intent and in full knowledge that their actions are harmful to others.
The tourist blame is a bit silly too as foreigners are often charged 10 times the price for entering national parks (1$ for thai, 10$ for a foreigner) to the point where whole #2pricethailand movement started. For this entry fee a whole platoon of park maintainers could be hired but I've never seen more than 3 people present even in big parks and the trash cans are often missing or badly maintained, so it seems money is definitely being pocketed at some stage.
Generally tourists that go to these parks are quite tidy here and this headline seems like a click-bait.
Many tourists post online that the 10x price is not worth the visit. As you say there are sometimes issues with maintenance etc.
Most of tourists are Thai. We do find sometimes families throwing out trash on side of road.
Also, if you ever visit Khao Yai I can't recommend "The Frog Resort" enough. What an awesome place to stay and a beautiful park.
A nice way a private owner could address this problem would be to ask each visitors to buy admission ticket and issue a surety bond that could be claimed within 30 days to pay for any damages.