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> People love to criticize Apple, but man do they do some wonderful things for their customers.

People rarely criticize Apple for the products themselves. Apple gets criticism because of the "weird" (for lack of a better word) restrictions on the products. I've stopped using a Mac for quite a while now - but I recall examples - when the first Macbooks came without a optical drive you could buy an external one. But it will only work with _that particular Macbook model_ (after googling around I found that you could send a magic SCSI string to make it work). There is no iPhone with a SD card slot - my dad _LOVED_ iOS and his iPhone 6S but he had to switch to an Android phone so that he can use a 500GB SD card to store all his photos (he wants _ALL_ his photos available locally on the phone, so cloud sync is not an option).

I could go on. Apple makes some amazing products, but then adds quirks that makes the amaze short lived.

I hear you.

The headphone jack on the phone, I can actually see it. Not a lot of real estate inside a phone, and they wanted people to try AirPods (which I love, and might not have tried if it weren't for the missing jack).

But... no headphone jack on a 13" tablet? I edit movies on there sometimes and I grumble every time I dust off the dongle to plug in a mic for voiceovers.

But, no, people criticize Apple for everything they can think of. It's one of those companies where there's a set of people who, for whatever weird reason, have decided it's the enemy. They're against Apple and everything it stands for.

It's strange, I think the only company I feel that way about is Facebook. Maybe because phones are the most intimate things we own, they become part of our identities?

> Not a lot of real estate inside a phone

iPhone got thicker and bigger when they removed the headphone jack.

doesn't that reinforce the point? Space was needed for something else...

>But... no headphone jack on a 13" tablet? I edit movies on there sometimes and I grumble every time I dust off the dongle to plug in a mic for voiceovers.

This is especially dumb from Apple considering the number of pro audio apps marketed for the iPad that require the use of a wired connection for latency reasons. (no, Bluetooth audio will never have low enough latency for music production)

these same pro users are likely going to need more than a single USB port and will likely have dongles with them.

> They're against Apple and everything it stands for

I think it's because Apple competitors try to copy the look and feel (round corners, hiding stuff away, make it convoluted to get to advanced settings to make the settings look less "intimidating") to try to pull Apple userbase and it waters down the experience for the people who are against Apple.

Apple found out people were using SD cards to expand the storage on their Macbooks in stead of buying the higher storage options... few years later the SD card slot is dropped entirely.

Even the immense photo and video/graphics userbase of Apple wasn't enough to stop the SD card slot removal. :-(

Which model had the slot? Like the original? I started with the 5 and it didn’t have one but I’ve always been hampered by the lack of space.

MacBook laptops had SD cards slots, or at least the Air and Pro models. iPhones and iPads never did, although there’s been a super awkward adapter available for iPad since it first came out, but it is super limited in what it can be used for.

To play devils advocate, I think from apples perspective they 100% don't want people using random SD cards they buy from amazon then calling up apple tech support for help when it fails/corrupts all their photos that weren't synced to the cloud, posting complaints online about how the iOS lost all thier photos etc...

Although personally i think there still should be one, and a headphone jack!

> People rarely criticize Apple for the products themselves

Apple prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrducts smetimes prrrrrevent them frrrrrrrrrm ding s

I came here to say the same thing. Just watched a few Star Wars and Pixar scenes on Disney+ and I was shocked how well it worked. I thought it might be gimmicky, but it's a total game changer for watching movies at night with Airpods. Also very happy my iPhone can finally display PIP as well.

Do you know how it compares to Dolby Atmos for headphones, DTS Headphone:X, and Windows Sonic? Those solutions all work with conventional stereo headphones.

Edit: after more reading I believe the main difference is the sensors in the Airpods Pro track head movement. For instance the virtual center (dialog speaker) would always appear to be coming from the display device, even if you move or tilt your head.

Son of a gun, I went and researched and turns out my Mac can produce a "similar" spatialization effect in VLC from 5.1 audio at least, under Window > Audio Effects > Filter > Headphone virtualization. Not that I've ever heard anyone mention its existence before. But I'm definitely using that from now on. Thanks for setting me on that track!

As for comparing the two... the iOS one is absolutely better, but the VLC one is still a really nice improvement. But it's definitely not just the head tracking. The VLC one somehow feels like it spreads the audio out "horizontally", so background sound comes from outside the head, but people speaking still sound "between my ears". Whereas with iOS, the people speaking genuinely sound like they're in front of me -- it puts the center audio forwards -- and nothing sounds "between my ears".

I would guess Apple can produce something superior because they know the exact shape and positioning of their own headphones, as opposed to a generic stereo headphone plugin?

Not to mention, of course, the lack of head tracking in VLC. I just researched Dolby Atmos for Headphones to compare, and it looks intriguing but appears to be Windows only.

Classic "virtual surround" works like you've noticed in VLC. I believe the new spatial audio formats (including Apple's) all use a standard HRTF (head-related transfer function) that approximates an average person's ear canal shape. This lets you be placed in a virtual space surrounded by audio sources/objects.

Sony's Mark Cerny had a fascinating talk on PS5's spatial audio implementation. Sony might even support importing a custom-measured HRTF for even greater sound placement accuracy. No idea where you'd get it measured though!

Not particularly useful for movies but an interesting fact is that you get this same effect with any pair of headphones while playing VR games since all the stuff for head tracking exists already.

I own a pair and they don’t stay in my ears even if I’m sat perfectly still for more than 15 minutes at a time. I really hope they fix this somehow.

I have the same problem as you. Our ears must be similarly defective.

You can buy silicon flaps that slip over the top and will keep them comfortably in your ear. The problem is that they don’t fit in the case with the flaps on.

I haven’t tried AirPod Pros but I assume they are better in this regard.

Apple: where it's not a problem with their hardware, it's a problem with your ears.

To be clear, it’s the same for me with any in-ear buds that don’t have the silicone flap thing that I first found on the Bose QuietComfort headphones.

That earbud style just fundamentally doesn’t work for some anatomical reason in a percentage of the population.

Good to know, I wanted to buy some AirPods but I'm another one that can only fit BOSE IEMs. I guess I'll pass.

Does anybody else with "wrong" ears used to get awful outside ear pain with the old all plastic iPhone earbuds? I physically cringe in pain just looking at them.

For what it’s worth, I had the same problem with all previous Apple earphones. But, I don’t have that problem with airpod pros.

> I haven’t tried AirPod Pros but I assume they are better in this regard.

I actually have no problem with the origin AirPods, but the AirPod Pros always slip out of my ear. The former relies on the shape of your ear to hold it in, the latter relies on friction of the insert in your ear canal; and I guess my ears are just unusually slippery. I've tried all the different sizes, and not found anything that works. When I'm working out or cycling I always use the original AirPods.

YMMV of course.

I only have the problem with AirPod Pros. The fit test never passes in my right ear and they feel very uncomfortable after about 15 minutes. They also fall out when I speak and walk with them on.

But the worst is that sometimes my own voice resonates back in my ear, its hard to describe but very unpleasant and disturbing in a conversation.

Yeah same. I can wear the originals out for a run and it’s not a problem.

Like you it’s worse in my left ear too.

Have you tried the other tips? The AirPods Pro come with a bunch in different sizes

Of course. None of them make any difference.

I've tried every single option for in-ears except for custom-moulded parts. None of them fit.

I've tried cheap ones, I've tried expensive ones, I've tried swappable tips. Nope.

I also hate the Darth Vader soundtrack I get when I shove in-ear plugs in my head. I can hear every single breath I take.

Regular old AirPods though? They stick to my ears like glue.

People have different shaped ears, no one model can fit everyone. Even over the ear headphones differ on how they fit people with glasses. PortaPros are a complete no-no for me for example. Great headphones, absolute nope with glasses.

Exactly the same. Original airpods were fitting my ear like they were molded just for me. I ran and jumped with them in my ears multiple times, they pretty much didn't move at all.

Airpods Pro are awesome in terms of sound and features, but no matter which of the included eartips I use for it, they always tend to wiggle out. Never fully to the point of falling out, but plenty of times it got to that weird in-between stage of falling out and staying in. No idea why. Hopefully there are more third party eartips available for Airpods Pro now as opposed to the last time I checked (which was just a month or two after the release), so I can finally find a pair that makes them stay in.

As an owner of the regular airpods, I never really saw the reason to upgrade, but this sounds pretty compelling. How many shows support this?

Only Apple TV+, Disney+ & HBO Max support it at the moment, no Netflix or Prime yet.

All the ones I tried on Apple TV+. I think pretty much all scripted TV these days is produced in at least 5.1 surround, which is what it needs (also supports 7.1). But it has to be supported by the content and the app you use.

LifeHacker put out a guide a few hours ago about which streaming services support it on their iOS app [1], the upshot being:

Supported: Apple TV+, Disney+, HBO Max

Not yet supported: Netflix, Prime Video, Showtime Anytime, PBS, TNT

[1] https://lifehacker.com/which-apple-devices-and-video-service...

There is an A Tribe Called Quest album with a skit that almost always made me turn around to see who is talking behind me when listened to on headphones. AFAIK they used stereo microphones on a mannequin to achieve this effect. I don't know what my point is but I guess it's a bit surprising that it took so long for this to enter the mainstream as we've certainly had the ability to do his with minimal extra processing for quite some time now.

It's called binaural sound, and can be played back on any headphones.

> People love to criticize Apple, but man do they do some wonderful things for their customers.

I agree. Some solutions from Apple are uniquely wonderful.

Imagine if they opened up this feature for 3p companies like Netflix. And let’s suppose Netflix commissions original content that is tailor made to take advantage of this type of audio. Of course, Netflix would benefit from increased subscribers and one could argue Apple would benefit from the availability of the content too — more people likely to buy airpods.

However, I’m personally convinced that Apple’s 30% commission charge to Netflix is completely justified. After all, they’re taking advantage of an end to end solution built by Apple. But of course, Netflix could bypass the IAP policy and not past the benefits into Apple. But I’m just using Netflix as an example. Any 3p app such as game or music app or movie app would benefit from this feature.

I only bring up the 30% point because it’s been make headlines recently and the hn community also has been vocal on the topic.

(Disclaimer: I don’t know enough about the spatial audio feature to say if it works with apps like Netflix or not. I’m presuming it doesn’t for illustrating my argument.)

Netflix stopped allowing subscriptions via IAP in December 2018.

Netflix can and hopefully will add support. HBO Max and Disney+ support spatial audio right now.

Wow. With my bad ears, I wasn't sure it was working as you described until my right AirPod battery died and the spatial audio went away. Stunning is right.

I was of the understanding that the accelerometers are actually inside the AirPods - so that shouldn't prevent them from working with Macs.

Maybe it comes with Big Sur?

> My understanding is they don't support Macs because they don't have accelerometers/gyroscopes so the AirPods wouldn't know what they were relative to spatially.

What about when using the AppleTV? (This question isn't really for crazygringo who wouldn't be using the Mac to watch video if they owned an appleTV.)

AppleTV doesn’t support it either.

> So not only does it blow me away technologically, but also that I got it as a free upgrade almost a year after buying the headphones!

Being pedantic here: it is not actually free for you. The costs of improvements delivered through software updates are built into the original price you paid for it through deferred revenues and "subscription accounting". [1] In other words, Apple is not subsidizing new feature delivery from other sources of revenue or from debts. This came from the collective AirPod Pro users' pockets.

Accounting (and the related legality) aside, it is great to see hardware products get enhancements and a longer useful life through such means (whenever it happens).

[1]: https://appleinsider.com/articles/13/11/01/apple-now-sitting...