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Comment by sna1l | Hacker News Reader

I think Apple Fitness+ will be fine as a standalone product, but I believe this is a stepping off point for more fully fledged fitness products from Apple.

Using their AR technology (iPad/iPhone/etc), they can replicate a lot of the same functionality a multi-thousand dollar product like the Tempo provides. They can automatically correct form, recognize weights, etc.

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If Apple did this for home workouts I would subscribe to Fitness+ in a heartbeat. I currently practice yoga at home, and the worst part is I don't have an instructor to correct my form.

Check out Mixpose https://mixpose.com/ . It's a livestream yoga app on iOS,Android and Web with 3+ live classes a day. Since it's live the instructor can correct your form when you have hard time doing it. Eventually we are going to turn on the AI pose tracking. Disclaimer: I am the co-founder so let me know if you have any question.

Your service looks pretty cool, but there are a few things preventing me from using it:

1) Not having a live instructor is both a blessing and a curse, but largely a blessing for us introverts - I'm not comfortable with somebody watching me work out. But maybe I'll give Mixpose a shot when the AI option is released and has had time to mature.

2. I can't personally justify the high cost of the Mixpose service - an actual gym membership is around the same price (and that includes a couple of 1-on-1 personal trainer sessions each month), and my current yoga app (without feedback, admittedly) is $20 per year. In direct comparison to Apple Fitness+, I can sign my wife and myself up for the new Apple One Premiere bundle for $30/mo and get music streaming, news, 2TB of storage, and other goodies on top of Fitness+.

3. If the rumors of Fitness+ utilizing iPhone camera and Watch sensor information simultaneously are true, I feel other AI form-correction solutions won't stand a chance - but I'd be happy to be disproved on that front!

Great feedback. We are not in the VOD business since it's just too competitive and there are a lot of great free contents on Youtube already. Fitness+ is only using Apple Watch.

Yeah, probably a good call to not try to compete in the fitness VOD sphere, it seems to be a very quick race to the bottom. For the record, I do think your offering is a good and innovative solution to the issue of wanting to workout in the comfort of your own home but also wanting in-person classes and personalized training - I just don't think it's for me, personally.

> Fitness+ is only using Apple Watch.

While this is currently true, my original comment was stating that Fitness+ would be worth it to me, for $10/mo, if Apple were to make an integrated movement tracking system using multiple devices, as the comment I replied to posted.

What is the pricing? It seems to all be free on the webpage.

I'm unsure what the pricing scheme is if you purchase through the Mixpose website or Android app, but it's $20/mo or $200/yr through iOS in-app purchase.

75% percent of the classes are free now. On the web is all free now but we plan to turn on the subscription soon and will add more live classes soon.

You can try https://yoganotch.com - uses motion sensors to give feedback on yoga form

Cool product if it really works. But too much work and friction to put on the sensors if I want to quickly do a workout.

cool design! + I don't need to film myself while doing yoga. what is the accuracy?

Thank you! I am one of the founders, the accuracy will vary depending on how the person is wearing it, but regardless it will be well within clinically acceptable values for something like physiotherapy or rehab.

Yoganotch itself is new (2020) but we've been building these devices for a few years - have a number of peer reviewed papers published based on Notch (https://wearnotch.com/papers).

This looks like a very interesting solution! Is there a subscription fee for the YogaNotch app, as well, or is it just the one-time sensor purchase?

No, there is no subscription :)

Actually it takes a minute to put four sensors on and calibrate your posture before class. I’ve used it since my gym shut down in March, and do not plan to return there any time soon. This sensor kit with the free app with cool classes totally transformed my practice with respect to the depth, focus and effectiveness. Imagine having a private teacher who is paying attention to you, measuring your posture in Asana, gives you immediate feedback and praises you when you do it right... and it costs a fraction of $ you would pay for your private session. None of the big fitness brands come even close to this technologically. It’s a future of home yoga practice whether some may resist “invasion” of tech in yoga or not.

calibrate

This seems like a good use for AR -- Epic was showing off an app a few weeks ago where Unreal Engine devs could use the front-facing cameras on iDevices to capture skeletal animations, and I could see a fitness app using this tech to detect bone positions and provide guidance.

Everyone is different, and there's not going to be an automated way to fix your movement and training form unless the app can ask you questions as it walks around you to look at you from all sides. Generic form guide for a heavy squat could lead to injuries. Our bodies are too varied for this to be feasible at the moment.

I could see a combination of iPhone cameras and sensors + Apple Watch sensors offering a fairly good picture for an AI program to base form critique off.

Totally agreed. There are too many problem of using computer vision. Camera angle, lightening and even the cloth you wear will make the differences. End of day people just want to do workout instead of finicking with technology.

Don't you think is coming? Baby steps. First they'll launch and polish the trainings and sort the experience, then they add shit tons of tech there.

Think on the Nike's kinect game. Or Wii Fit, but 10 years later with a whole ecosystem behind it.

One of the most exciting services in a long time

Don't you think is coming?

I think he does. That's why he stated, "I believe this is a stepping off point for more fully fledged fitness products from Apple."

I wonder what that means for companies like Peloton. I can imagine an Apple Watch and a small "smart" bike trainer[1] would be infinitely more practical and affordable for most people and still allow Apple users to track all of the same metrics as Peloton.

[1] Something like this, but with an odometer and WiFi: https://www.amazon.com/Goplus-Exercise-Trainers-Flywheel-Sta...

They could just buy Peloton. "Apple Peloton".

Or just Apple Bike+

This seems more likely to me.

Apple would want to design their stationary bike from The ground up w their bicycle experts. (They may already have done this a few times)

Also, letting Peloton do it’s thing is a small safety valve on the anti competitive question.

They could, but if they have superior hardware I doubt they'd want to have to support the long tail of Peloton users with existing bikes.

Why not? If Apple buys Peloton, they also get all their staff and offices. The existing staff can continue working on their existing products just as before, while transitioning to Apple, no?

If Apple believe they can make a competitive product to Peloton (and I imagine they do) then the additional staff and offices aren't necessarily a good thing.

To put it another way: why should Apple buy Peloton? Apple itself is already a premium brand with huge awareness, so a buy for brand reasons isn't that persuasive. Peloton has a whole range of hardware but none of it is compatible with existing Apple hardware, so integration might be a drag.

I have no idea if Apple should buy Peloton or not, I was just objecting to your reasoning. It's completely normal to get acquired by another company and keep on working on the existing products as is, that's all I'm saying.

It's normal, yes, but is it preferable for the buyer? I'd see it as a potential reason not to buy.

Watch the event from today, specifically regarding the new iPad. They show it analysing someone's tennis form providing knee extension info and ball speed etc.

Should check out Gymaholic iPhone app. Really good use of AR and overall nice experience.

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/gymaholic-workout-tracker/id64...

I love Gymaholic, but I don't understand how the AR is useful at all. How is it better for me to watch a 3D model do an exercise with my couch as the background, rather than just a black background? Is it the ability to walk around the 3D model? It's much easier just to spin the model with my thumb.

That is how I feel about most AR is in general. It just filters out the app background and makes whatever your camera is pointing at the background.. without really adding any value.

I'm sure AR will have some absolutely amazing applications in the future. I just haven't seen much of it yet.

Yeah I like walking around the model aha. I wouldn’t be surprised if Gymaholic got bought out. It’s too good.

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