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Comment by mensetmanusman | Hacker News Reader

If it wasn’t apps, it was going to be the casinos, right?

In the UK there are regulations that require casinos and other gambling venues to block access if a problem gambler doesn't show restraint. It's much like how we would expect a barkeeper to tell a alcoholic who has had too much that they won't be served more and shouldn't drive home.

Similar addictive behaviour occurs with these apps and the games are designed to be as addictive as possible. While users should take personal responsibility, it would be trivial for these app producers to provide users with some protections from themselves.

Having worked in that industry within the UK, these "requirements" are seldom carried out.

Casinos, at least in the US, are heavily regulated. All games are checked for fairness; there are minimum payout odds mandated by law (for example, slot machines in NJ must return 75% or more, depending on locality); casinos must keep cash on hand to cover payouts; they must pay immediately on demand; etc. In addition, they're liable if they allow clearly-addicted people to continue playing or if they explicitly encourage unhealthy behavior (although this is loose, as they can ply you with "free" rooms, drinks, transportation, entertainment, etc.). It's not even the same ballpark as these apps run by criminal organizations that have no rules. Banks ought to block any payment to them and cut off the source.

At least you have to physically go to a casino. When the casino is in your pocket it's very hard for an addict to resist.

The strangest part in this story for me, is that this is nothing like a casino, you can't even win any money back! It's purely spending money for spinning wheels, without the suction that you might win in the future...

> As in a real casino, players exchange money for coins to bet. Unlike in a real casino, there is no way to win money back or earn a payout on coins. But that has not stopped Shellz and her husband from spending about $150,000 in the game in just two years.

This is unreal! How can you spend $200 A DAY on a game that you cannot win anything back from? I'm having a really hard time understanding how or why these people keep playing the games.

Welcome to the sad reality where people are so imperfect that they can't even imagine ways in which people are actually imperfect.

By the way, have you heard of the Cookie Clicker?

I've played plenty of Cookie Clicker and other video games, probably too much, and also been to my fair share of casinos, but never spent $200 per day on things that there is no chance of getting money back somehow.

Well, I've never been to a casino, but I did spent quite some time on videogames, including WoW. For me, the trick to actually give something like this up was to say to myself, "I can stop at any moment. In fact, I will stop right now" and... stop. The next few moments/hours/days (depending on how long you've spent and how emotionally attached you've grown) feel kinda surreal: "Have I really just spent all this time to... basically doing nothing", but it helps to switch your attention to something else and forget about that accident. I suspect, however, that this trick only works for someone pretty lazy i.e. someone who can easily refrain from doing something even when feeling like doing that something (imagine "Mood: Ich Hab' Keine Lust by Rammstein").

It’s really hard for me to get in the headspace to understand this. Maybe one way to think about it is if you were ever playing a Civ game where you were in that “just one more turn” mode. You know you have just lost 8 hours of your life to something with no real world payoff. You know you lost a day of productivity at work/school/life with real quantifiable impact and need to get back to real life. But ... “one more turn”

The article actually has a pretty good explanation for this- part of it is the social aspects of the games. Spending big allows one into higher-tier VIP clubs. So there can be friendships that have developed where, in order to maintain status and stay in the same league as your friends, one needs to maintain spending habits.

The article is implying though that actually winning money is not required for people to become addicted. It's as if you go to a casino to play slot machines, with no expectation of ever being able to cash out. You just get high in winning and losing chips, with no attached monetary value.

I wonder if an actual casino could get away with that business model.

Many casinos operate these apps as well

https://www.wynnlasvegas.com/casino/wynn-slots

Sure, but I'm asking if a physical casino could operate without cash out being an incentive? Say you get a certain number of chips for free each day you come, and then you can pay for more chips.

Probably with some market downsizing. It’d essentially be an arcade but with slots. The appeal might be to use large denomination machines, like with the apps - lots of zeros

Churchill Downs, the former owner of Big Fish, is a casino and racetrack company and Aristocrat, the current owner is a slot manufacturer.

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