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Comment by pantulis | Hacker News Reader

Learning to play piano takes years, but rewards can be more or less immediate if one knows how to set the right expectations.

As an adult learner, you need to make sure you are enjoying the instrument so it should have the right action and sound. It's unbeliable how you can purchase a Casio CDP S100 these days for less than 400 bucks and get a decent keybed and sound, advances in digital piano technology are staggering! not only sample libraries are huge these days, most digital piano companies have been including physical modelling into their sound engines with success, it's only a matter of time until these offering end up in the lower price points

One can safely predict that in a decade the only difference between an affordable digital piano and a real acoustic piano will be the keyboard action.

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Yes! Additionally, these keyboards can record directly to your computer via MIDI. This facilitates online lessons and YouTube recordings to show family, and also opens a whole world of electronic music production.

I think a big breakthrough will be the mass availability of smaller (e.g. 15/16) size keyboards with professional actions. Right now, a large amount of jazz and advanced classical literature is literally out of reach for people whose hands are not at least the male average – and this includes most women [0]. This can be extremely discouraging for the aspiring pianist [1].

[0]: http://smallpianokeyboards.org/hand-span-data-recent-austral... [1]: http://smallpianokeyboards.org/competition-results/

> One can safely predict that in a decade the only difference between an affordable digital piano and a real acoustic piano will be the keyboard action.

There is still some chamber repertoire that really does rely on a real acoustic piano for resonance effects: the pianist silently depresses keys, so that the strings are left to vibrate, and then they will sympathetic-resonate with notes played by another instrumentalist.

Resonance between instruments? Do you know a piece or recording, sounds awesome!

Luciano Berio's Sequenza X is generally a solo trumpet piece, but it requires a piano nearby for resonance. Henri Dutilleux’s Figures de résonance for two pianos also exploits the idea.

Also, when it comes to purely solo piano works that require one to leave certain keys silently depressed for resonance effects, György Ligeti's Touches bloquées comes to mind.

Thanks for this. I was aware of half-damper resonance on a piano, but making the piano resonate to a trumpet is just awesome.

I wonder whether the even the synthetic pianos model the second order resonant effects of key presses. Managing "colour" as my teacher would call it is an important part of performance

Most high end models do, albeit I guess in a limited way. Again, this is only a matter of CPU power so this will definitely improve.

It is absolutely true that adults can begin to learn piano (or any musical instrument) and reap rich rewards. And as you say the key is to set the right expectations and enjoy the sound, enjoy the process.

However, I don't agree that affordable to even high-end digital pianos will be able to approximate real acoustic pianos within 10 years in two primary areas: dynamics (being able to produce the full range of sounds from pianissimo to fortissimo) and haptic feedback (the subtle vibrations felt by the fingers and body when playing a real piano). Digital piano keybeds are getting better and better in these areas, but are just not close yet to a real piano sound and feel IMHO.

If anyone knows of any models of keyboards that prove me wrong, please share!

I think the dynamics is a solved problem in terms of technology: at the extreme, you only need to sample every note for every expression level, it's just that it's not feasible in terms of hardware cost. Then you have damper resonance but todays high end models have some implementation and given that it's software one can expect great advances there in terms of modelling (soundboard resonance will be there).

Regarding keybed, the Kawai MP11 is supposedly the best with wooden keys and long pivot points, but again it's a matter of expectations and obviously a professional player will be able to tell the difference.

Kawai's midrange and higher pianos have a soundboard feature that provides tactile feedback.

I've heard the top-end models are very good. They have the same piano action as the five-figure acoustic Kawais but with electronic sound generation.

(I have a cheaper Kawai which is suits my needs, but I'm planning to get either the top end Kawai or Yamaha when my playing gets good enough to justify it.)

They're more than fine for amateurs, even dedicated amateurs. The equivalent Yamaha model - no soundboard, arguably better action - has become a kind of semi-mobile standard for professionals to practice on when there's nothing better around.

Of course you can't compare a four/low-five electronic design with a hand-made prestige six figure concert hall acoustic. But you can compare it with an equivalently-priced acoustic, and increasingly the electronic designs are winning.

I wouldn't say it would prove you wrong, but the StudioLogic SL88 Grand with the sound coming from Pianoteq is stunning for the money. Obviously it's not going to feel exactly like a real piano, but it is absolutely similar enough to feel way more like a real piano than anything else I've tried, and at a bit more than $1KUS, the price is unbeatable for anyone up to a very advanced level. StudioLogic is Fatar's in-house brand, so you get the key-bed of a much more expensive digital piano in a cheaper minimal housing, blowing away anything else in the same price bracket on key feel. You might have to hunt for them. They have weird arrangements as a part supplier for other brands, so for instance I found it at long & mcquade in Canada, but it was not on their websites.

On a similar spirit, the Kawai VPC1 although you need a PC to generate the sounds. Most people tend to use Modartts' Pianoteq.

I've started to use a RPi4 instead (output is through a simple USB DAC) and the quality is pretty much the same. Additionally, it makes for a simpler setup if you have a dedicated unit for the purpose.

Are you running Pianoteq or other software?

My Korg Kronos is just a dedicated mini-PC working as a synthesizer workstation appliance. It takes about 3-4 minutes to boot so hooking a RPi4 next to it would make for a great weekend project.

I’m running Pianoteq indeed

Yup, I use Pianoteq too, it's amazing!

What I don’t like about the Casio digital P72 I have from Amazon is that I could hear the thumping sound when I play a bit harder. It just annoys the heck out of me. I never play an acoustic one before so I don’t know if this is an issue with such on as well. Hell ya, the reward is exceptional once I could play easier pieces from Bach’s.

Real pianos also have the thumping sound if you hit them hard, but you cannot put headphones ;)

I am learning for the first time as an adult. Decided to pick up a Yamaha P45 and it’s treated me well. The weighted keys feel nice, and the features are welcome and not distracting. I think it will serve me well as I continue learning, but I am only a few months in so far so it’s really too early to tell haha

Fine, but you have nothing to say about the interview?

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