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Comment by hevelvarik | Hacker News Reader

It will be great to have more players in the smart phone OS domain so I hope this makes it big. On the other hand, the downside of taking the security and privacy of your phone into your own hands, is that ... you’ve taken the security and privacy of the phone into your own hands.

I’m happy to pay Apple to do it for me because my phone is nowhere near my main or most important computing device and I also quite like that they poke google and Facebook in the eye from time to time. Sure, Apple is just a profit driven enterprise like the rest but their business model is directly related to keeping users happy at least for some value of users and happy.

The only downside for me is that I can’t write an app for my device because I haven’t bought into the Apple computer ecosystem.

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> I’m happy to pay Apple to do it for me because my phone is nowhere near my main or most important computing device

But for millions, their mobile device is their main or most important device, whether it runs iOS, iPadOS, or Android.

It can be their main device, with one example being Apple's divisive "What's a computer" ad. Another example is those that rely on mobile, due either to cost or lack of physical space for a desktop or laptop.

For others, their mobile is the most important, likely because that's where all their messages, contacts, location history, and more, resides.

> For others, their mobile is the most important, likely because that's where all their messages, contacts, location history, and more, resides.

Indeed. And some of those people value the security and privacy of that data and want to reduce the risk of having it stolen by malware and rogue apps, so they intentionally buy into an ecosystem that enforces strict controls on what apps can run on their devices.

That last one is big for me. I like using an iphone and I have an idea for a nice app but I do not like macbooks. I have tried them a few times and just do not like macos as much as linux. Now I can't work on my app idea because apples policy is you buy all apple products or things just don't work properly anymore.

You can could develop with React Native and use a Mac VPS to do the final build.

Not sure what you want from Apple here. Is it to port their entire iOS/OSX SDK to Linux just to support the 0.000001% of users who would want to develop that way.

Yes, Google manages it just fine and people programming on linux is not exactly a non existent group. I'd even be happy with a windows toolkit since I can at least use my existing desktop for it.

I think the number of developers who would rather not buy a $1000+ machine just so they can develop an app for this system is much greater.

I for one am one of them.

Also the annual $99 fee only adds insult to injury.

> to Linux just to support the 0.000001% of users

Because Windows users don't ever want to write iOS apps? Particularly game devs, who are primarily using Windows computers to develop games because Windows PC is their largest market? None of those people would like to develop iOS games without switching to an entirely new OS?

> Not sure what you want from Apple here

Open up their SDK to the point where communities like Linux can realistically set up their own build tools or emulators. Don't sue people who are providing iPhone emulator access[0]; instead create code/SDK licensing opportunities for companies to ship these environments to customers/developers without running afoul of copyright laws.

I lose sympathy for companies claiming "this is too hard", when they're going out of their way to make the problem harder for other people to solve.

I don't know why we're pretending that there's anyone at Apple thinking, "wow, I'd love to make it easy for Windows/Linux devs to target iOS, but it's just too hard for me to engineer." We know that's not really happening, we know that Apple's management is very happy to force developers to buy Macs, we know that's a status quo that Apple has every incentive to reinforce at every opportunity.

[0]: https://venturebeat.com/2019/08/16/apples-corellium-lawsuit-...

Apple is making money hand over fist with their current ways of doing business.

There is no incentive for them to open up their operating systems or SDKs short of a court order or law that requires it.

Thats not contested. That doesn't mean its wrong to disagree with and not support the way apple does things.

If you disagree with Apple and do not want to support them, "vote" with your wallet.

Android devices are more open than Apple devices, have more capabilities, and more vendors with a wider range of device offerings.

Purism, PinePhone, and others are even more open than Android, but the software offerings are much more sparse.

Apple devices are much more locked down, but offer a polished and curated user experience. While Apple devices are more expensive, they tend to maintain their value better and are generally supported with software updates for much longer than Android devices.

Choose what works best for you and your needs.

> Android devices are more open than Apple devices, have more capabilities

and sucks on privacy much more.

Also about 'more open' - sounds like 'more good' or 'more pregnant'. So, here's two ways only - open or closed.

"Android is open source" - only the marketing slogan. You can run open source Android only in VM.

>> and sucks on privacy much more.

That depends on what vendor, device, and Android distribution you choose.

>> Also about 'more open' - sounds like 'more good' or 'more pregnant'.

"More open" meaning apps can be side-loaded on Android devices without needing permission from anyone. "More open" meaning you have a choice of vendors. "More open" meaning there are many marketplaces where you can find or purchase apps. "More open" because more choices are available.

>> So, here's two ways only - open or closed.

The Android ecosystem has a spectrum of openness depending what vendor, device, Android distribution, and app marketplace(s) you choose. Some vendors lock their devices down more than others.

>> "Android is open source" - only the marketing slogan. You can run open source Android only in VM.

Really? There are several privacy-focused, open source Android distributions that actually run on devices:

https://lineageos.org/

https://replicant.us/

https://e.foundation/

https://grapheneos.org/

There is no smartphone which can run Android without binary blobs. Exceptions: https://tehnoetic.com/mobile-devices, but many essential things just don't work.

99.9% of android camera, modem, GPS, wifi drivers are closed.

"several privacy-focused, open source Android distributions" also includes proprietary drivers, in most cases they have no choice.

Preach. Also, pretty sure that Linux accounts for higher than 0.000001% of developers.

> pretty sure that Linux accounts for higher than 0.000001% of developers

Definitely! As an quick example, I make a cross-platform developer tool with no particular focus or obvious bias towards any OS (https://httptoolkit.tech), and the active user base is:

44% Windows

42% Mac

14% Linux

Developers are everywhere - limiting tools like Apple's to just their platform is a huge disservice.

That's a cool looking tool.

Have you marketed it towards pentesters at all? I guess Burp has that market pretty well locked down, but I'm always open to seeing more competitors.

As far as Apple limiting their tools, well, that's why I'll never own an Apple product. Why would I buy a device that I can't develop for?

Same can be said about Sony, Nintendo having Windows only SDKs, or not being able to target Windows from Linux or macOS (cross compiling only works as much as Wine can help).

> Not sure what you want from Apple here. Is it to port their entire iOS/OSX SDK to Linux just to support the 0.000001% of users who would want to develop that way.

Just from the Stackoverflow survey, Linux developers have a 25% market share, same share as OSX.

I've found the Mac Mini to be Apple's best hardware; more upgradable than the typical MBP, and much more reasonably priced. (I also never use any laptop I use as a laptop; I find the ergonomics of laptops unbearable).

But I also enjoy OSX and haven't experienced many of the downsides commonly mentioned on HN, so YMMV.

I have a ryzen 9 desktop that I use for gaming and programming. Apple offers nothing in the desktop space which covers my needs. So I either buy a less powerful version of my current computer or don't develop for iOS.

> I’m happy to pay Apple to do it for me because my phone is nowhere near my main or most important computing device

It seems a lot of people are happy to pay Apple to assume that role for their main computing device too.

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