Ask HN: Have you ever tried to live without a phone?
I am considering ditching my smartphone and either going back to an old-school phone or not owning one at all. What are your thoughts? Any experience?
I disagree. My feeling is that life was much better, more "human" without mobile phones. I hate how everyone walks around staring down at their phones instead of looking at the world. It's like an addiction. It reminds me of the ST:TNG episode "The Game". People don't even acknowledge each other's existence anymore.
Face-to-face interactions (pre-pandemic) ceased to exist, attention spans dropped precipitously, laziness increased (I can't be bothered to go out anywhere when I can have it delivered to my door by a "gig worker".) It's truly become a dystopia. If you weren't alive or an adult in the years before smartphones, you may not realize what a dystopia this is in comparison. I'm not even idolizing the past — there were certainly plenty of problems in the past — but this is even worse, and none of the past problems were solved either.
One of the unacknowledged advantages of desktops computers is that you can't take them everywhere. You have to leave desktop computers on the desktop. You eventually have to get up, get away from the computer, and interact with other humans in person. I also feel that mobile phones decrease personal independence. The smartphone becomes a "crutch" that you don't know how to live without. You can't even function adequately without a smartphone in your hand or pocket.
When another person is in your physical presence, it's almost like you're deliberately ignoring them when your eyes are glued down on the smartphone. It's personal rudeness, a diss. "You're not even worth raising my head and saying hi."
The internet isn't some kind of fake virtual reality... it is just a communication tool. The draw to use it is created by real people sharing real ideas. I think this idea that people who are physically closer to you deserve more of your attention is misguided.
Who says you have to ignore internet messages? It took you a half hour to reply to my comment, and that's fine. That leaves plenty of time to acknowledge a person IRL.
The internet will still be there when we get home from being outside. That's one of the advantages of the internet.
> The internet will still be there when we get home from being outside
And won't the physical space outside still be there after you decide you're done talking on the internet?
It's impossible to overstate how useful GPS is.
That said, one could always get a dedicated GPS device instead of using a phone.
Maps are useful (and I think they're more useful in paper or schematic form optimized to particular use case), but GPS is really just a nice to have.
On top of that "do not disturb" (iOS > settings > Do not disturb) hits at 20:00 and ends at 07:00 where no one can call me (except for those who are in my favourites).
So basically my phone is dead > 20:00 till 07:00.
Best of both worlds to me.
I own a Kindle for books, which helped a lot with my Internet addiction and the lack of focus, and for communication I have a dumb mobile phone with a battery that lasts for weeks.
Realistically speaking the only reason I'd buy a smartphone these days is for photos. Anything else is just fucking useless. I can't do work on a smartphone, and I don't even want to. I enjoy having time off of any electronic device because it helps my brain unwind and adds quality to my life.
Do it. Your health will thank you almost immediately for that.
>going back to an old-school phone or not owning one at all.
Personally, although I love the idea of going landline-only, I think a "dumb" phone can serve one well in a certain number of circumstances, so that's what I've been using for four years now. I use a Nokia 6250 at the present moment, but I keep switching between old phones I like and have lying around--some of them are brand new, never been out of the box.
I don't even text. I only make phone calls, and if someone doesn't pick up, I leave a voicemail telling them when they can preferrably return the call. That's it. I only use e-mail for more formal exchanges, but never to have anything that resembles an informal conversation.
Mind you, if you are still relatively young, doing away with IM, texting, and social media can be fairly alienating, as you will no doubt realize how utterly addicted everyone else is to their smartphone, and how a great deal of social activities and interactions that used to happen not that long ago don't come about that often anymore. Many opportunities to think deeply, to reflect, to have a conversation, to laugh, to question something, to go through your own personal memories, to find new things to do, to live, in sum, are now wasted on a regular basis.
Good luck with it, and don't be afraid to be an outlier.
On a day to day what I think helped me most is:
- Do not disturb mode on all the time.
- Keep apps to a minimum that is actually useful. I think I never had more than like 5 installed.
- Turn off most if not all notifications.
- If its a personal phone, do not set up all the work related stuff (email, slack, calendar, etc.) on it, or make sure notifications are turned off.
- And maybe most importantly, "train" your social or work circles, that not immediately responding does not mean you are dead or hold a grudge on them and if they want something from you they might have to think ahead.
With this I'm happy with having a device in the pocket or bag that does come in handy often enough, but does not need to be the most recent expensive flagship and is not a tamagotchi needing constant attention.
I only have a voip.ms account at this point (I use linphone, that I'm not entirely happy with but seems better than the alternatives I've been able to find and is cross platform). I only connect to it when I need to make a call and get voice messages sent to my email. While it might be different depending on where you live (I'm in a large city in the US), there are a number of places that expect you to have a phone and it will be more effort to be completely without one, so I'd recommend some VOIP account if you are going for the least annoyance non-smartphone option. Some companies require the ability to send you a text message, including Google (I think, unless there is some way to get around it) and Paypal. I was able to get SMS from Google on voip.ms but not from Paypal (they say SMS from short codes usually doesn't work and it they have no idea when they might be able to make it work). Paypal still lets me use the account (and stopped the annoying messages on login after I enabled TOTP) but I can't add any new info (update cards or bank info) so it may eventually stop working. My bank also seems to require that I have a phone but I can get the text via voice (but not just a message, you need to type a number before it gives you the code), text, or authy. I should try to see if they would give me a TOTP key if I contact them. You will need some phone number to enter into a form much more often but for me I think those are the only ones where I have actually needed to use the phone.
At least in the US, old cell phones can be used for emergency calls as long as they can connect (even if they do not have active service).
It sucked.
Not being communicable where you were and having to depend on fixed places for communication (phone booths, etc) sucked.
Not being able to access some information quickly (maps, etc) sucked. Ok maybe sometimes it was fun, but it overall sucked.
So thanks but no thanks
You can always set your phone to "Do Not Disturb" or "Airplane Mode" if needed. Or, you know, not look at it immediately after getting a notification
You are now given more options regarding daily activity + safety which aren't obligatory.
I was recently thinking what was in my parents heads when I was lost in the mountain storm during regular ski period in 90s.
I downloaded maps for offline use but I hated it and really missed having decent navigation at the push of a small button in my hand.
For music I used a 2008 iPod video. I actually still prefer it when riding my motorcycle.
I was shocked at how much I still needed the iPad for MFA via google authenticator / Microsoft auth / Authy because the Yubikey I bought didn’t work with most sites. This was a couple years ago. YMMV.
I wish I’d blogged about it. I ended up going back to a cheap Android after a couple months of missing a decent camera then go frustrated with the speed of the phone and went to a pixel and then back to iPhone.
When I have been without a phone it’s demonstrated how much I really need one for the simplest things like a calendar, a timer, a flashlight, a camera. A lot of that a dumb phone can do. But navigation is the deal breaker.
That said I think $1000 phones is stupid. I am very happy with the new iPhone SE
- Electric scooter unlocking (you scan a QR code on the scooter)
- Car rental and unlocking
- Maps and navigation
- Grocery list (I uncheck items when I notice that I'm running out, so the list is always up to date when I go to the mall)
- Language learning app
- Music streaming
- Podcasts (includes news)
As for my experience, I tried a week without a phone and a year without social media and my conclusion was that I absolutely need a smartphone and like Twitter (after some cleanup and muting some topics). I also tried a Jelly Phone (very tiny Android phone) for a while, which was fun, but a regular sized smartphone just works best for me.
Ultimately, it's up to you, to pick the technology that best fits your life. If you can live with an old-school phone or none at all, why not? The nice thing of the "not owning one at all" option is that you can just try it immediately.
A lot of the time it stays in my bag, and gets to the end of the day with 75% charge left despite reading books on it over lunch, often watching an hour's video on it in the evening, and listening to music via bluetooth at work if I need to shut out distractions.
It's now a tool and no longer an intrusion.
It took me 6 months of 'non corporate work' to get used to the idea of not receiving emails all the time.
It becomes part of your identity and you feel lost without it.
But then you regain something lost - peace of mind.
I can't even imagine what it means to grow up 'fully connected' - sometimes I think that young people must be excessively neurotic, and would be afraid of 'quiet' and think that what was normal for all of human history is now, in one generation - 'bizarre'.
I recommend getting an Android and not using apps. Don't have notifications, but if you want to check something you can.
And it will take 6 months to get used to, but afterwards, you might not be able to fathom going back to the noise.
Even the possibility of getting notifications is stressfull.
The difference between having a phone on, where people can contact you - vs - phone dead or 'no phone' is definitely noticeable. 'Knowing you don't have to check' is an extra level of peace.
it seems that if i shut my mouth its all fine but as soon as its time for a conversation there is constant disruption and derailment from the continuity of a conversation, effect is a shallow conversation or series of mini conversations made of half phra [BRRING!! BRINNG!!] hey someone just liked a post from yesterday, what was that we were talking about.
I don't use facebook for posting, just for messaging. I don't install works apps (teams) on my phone, so if I get a notification, it's usually positive/meaningful one. I mute all group chats.
This is how I keep my phone a positive object in my life.
What I did is disable all notifications and ringtones. Calls go to voicemail and if people leave a message I’ll call back on my own time, otherwise I won’t. Only my SO has audible ringtones and notifications so I know that if the phone rings it’s worth answering.
I don’t install apps if I can help it, I havE gotten rid of Facebook twitter etc a long time ago and will use the browser for the rest. If they go out of their way to make the browser experience shitty on mobile (Reddit, linked in), well, more power to them I’ll only use my computer with ad blocking instead.
And of course I’ll never install my works chat app on my phone, nor will they ever get my phone number.
But I do find having a smartphone is convenient. Maps at the tips of your fingers when you’re lost, calling places when you’re on the go and need to ask or change something, gps for the bicycle, transit pass for public transportation and trains, music on the go... it feels like by disabling all notifications, no social networks presence, and no native apps if I can help it, then I have the best of both worlds. Oh and nextdns.io for ad blocking on the iPhone, it works everywhere except in the YouTube app and for websites that inject google ads after the page has loaded (only a couple of websites as far as I’m concerned)
Smartphone Pluses: It's nice to have a camera and a flashlight in my pocket all the time. Having the internet nearby is also nice for when I need to look things up. GPS is really nice.
Smartphone Minuses: It's distracting, but you can and should customize your app preferences, notifications, etc. to your liking. The battery sucks.
Dumbphone Pluses: Not very distracting. Forces you to be thoughtful in text messages, as they are laborious to write on a numpad. Good battery life and they are mostly replaceable. Though you should buy a few replacements and store them in your fridge as battery models are dropped from manufacture.
Dumphone Minuses: Generally, not a good camera or screen to read/view from. Same with flashlight, but you can get a small one for your keychain anyways. Lack of apps and internet. Sometimes you really do want to have a stargazing app or know that one recipe. You can call 411 and ask them those questions as well, but it does cost money. No GPS. No real social media support, though you can send out updates to most social media sites, but getting back info is done through text message and that can be a hassle. Overall, you can do work-arounds, but they take time, knowhow, money, and are overall less optimal.
Overall, I have a pretty locked down smartphone right now and it works ok. I'd like to have a better battery though. I don't think I'll be going back to a dumbphone as the 'social inertia' of smartphone usage is pretty high.
The same works just as well now with the exception of the pager which needs to be replaced with a phone. Wear it when you need to be reachable, otherwise leave it at home. I still do this with my phones in a way in that I don't use data and leave my main device at home when I'm out in the woods. The secondary phones - I have a number of them - are all older Android devices which I use as audio players and cameras which happen to make it possible for people to reach me.
Just get a cheap phone or leave your current one at home for a while to see how it goes.
Here are some things I've done as a half measure to make phones more tolerable:
- Turn off notifications for almost everything. I don't let any of the current crop of messengers send audible (or vibration) notifications. I only see them if I look at my phone. I don't allow notifications from any social app, or really anything else.
- Set up "favorites" on Android, and leave my phone to only allow those through a large chunk of the time. This means the only people that I'll hear ring if they call are basically: my wife, kid's daycare and server downtime notifications.
For me that gets it into the range of tollerability most of the time. It helps that I've always been more of a laptop / desktop person than phone user for browsing. I don't tend to pick up my phone super often. Friends do complain that I'm hard to reach though.
I would suggest it as a one-month experiment to anyone reading this. I had so much time to think, reflect and... get bored. It was a sort of detox. It was great to not know where you are on the map. It was great to not have something to listen to. It was great to not catch-up.
Since I was off the hook of my smartphone, I tended not to bail out on conversations with others and go back to my digital reality. I talked to people (maybe other people not having smartphones also helped with this).
I kept my "dumb" phone for a couple of months after that but I don't think I can manage to live without a smartphone full time. However, it's a great exercise to reduce addiction. I definitely started use my smart phone less.
Also, leaving Facebook about ten years ago and never picking up any of the alternatives was a critical step toward taking back my attention.
Longest period was about 3 months, during which time I was able to voice chat via sat a few times a week. On many other occasions I've been off the phone grid for a few days to a couple weeks.
Message apps are a big one for me because I am rarely near people with whom I have close relationships. Months without that were quite lonely.
On the other hand, I (almost) never use maps, never use social media, and do not use my phone for watching videos. All of that by early choice. I survive fine that way.
Ive found that without my phone the first couple days have lots of frustrated moments of "oh...I cannot look up the thing I do not know," but after that I adapt.
Now I still spend hours browsing the internet each day, but usually I’m also out and about because I’m doing it on my phone.
However, I’m thinking of getting a smart watch and completely leaving my phone at home. If I really need to communicate someone I find an Apple Watch is good enough, and it eliminates the other distracting apps that eat up my time. Probably the way to go tbh, and if I had kids it’d probably be the first communication device I give them instead of a phone.
But if you suddenly need a document and you have been out for some work, and you don't have mobile to receive it ? This is the only thing I'm not able to cover it up. Rest if I ditch I can come over it.
That’s an easy one: my personal phone = no work use whatsoever. And if they offer to pay for it (they won’t), then I’ll decline so it stays my phone rather than my work’s whistle.
Last time I got a new phone (2015 or 2016), most of the QWERTY phones were just crappy or outdated smartphones. I found a slider with QWERTY that is apparently 3g only. Everybody hated the voice quality.
This time around, I gave in and got an iPhone SE. I hate the distraction, but I wasn't willing to live with T9 for texting.
Good luck!
It’s really helped with mental health to the point where I take a few days off a month and completely disconnect from “networked” tech. No phones or internet. I walk, I write, I watch movies I took the time to buy instead of taking what Netflix pushes on me.
I can’t say how I’d be without it but I do think it’s improved my life by making me appreciate slowing down more and deeper involvement in anything I’m currently doing.
Paying parking meters, not having to deal with rolls of quarters.
Also 2 factor logins at work from home require a smart phone.
Filling out forms for pandemic related info to get into Work requires a app. (For those that work in labs and not from Home)
I don’t love being plugged in all the time, but having lived my life without one (cell phones weren’t around in early 90s College) I’m not going back. Dumb phones were a pain to type on.
Apart from being always connected there is anxiety about my phone breaking which is another downside.
I still really enjoy having a few things: maps, camera, and messaging. I don’t do much of the social thing so that’s not a problem.
I’ve been checking out the Lightphone II. It’s definitely intriguing with the support for a hotspot and podcasts, music, and eventually maps. But I also don’t know that I want to spend that much.
Obviously, that does not work for the doorlock.
A better idea is to just turn it on for 2FA, then turn it off again.
Other sibling mentioned IMEI pinning, but I assume the emulator can spoof IMEI.
I am all for a separate physical device, just not a phone.
As i notice myself get too attached to my device i miss those peaceful years. At the very least leave it behind when you go on holiday if possible.
I have thought about porting my number to Twilio or similar, and having a stationary phonebooth that can send and receive mms messages, as well.
See: https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to...
Not going back.