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Comment by tikwidd | Hacker News Reader

My landlord installed a meth detector in my home which looks like a large smoke detector on the ceiling. It apparently communicates via the mobile network, but I have no idea how it actually measures meth. I doubt it actually measures anything (the product is made by http://www.methminder.co.nz/ but there is no actual information there). Point is, it makes tenants feel less secure. Which makes landlords feel more secure (ironically, products like these exploit the moral panic and lack of security that landlords feel regarding the meth crisis). Even if this Alexa for Landlords does nothing nefarious, its real purpose is to create that feeling of insecurity that landlords want.

Maybe, just maybe, the landlord is listening. And we better not refuse the device because maybe they'll get the idea that we don't trust them...

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>Q What does Meth Minder cost per month? A Monitoring starts at $49.95 per month. ($11.53 per week) See full pricing here. All prices include gst

I appreciate the poetics of a rent-seeking company targeting landlords.

Yeah but the landlords are just gonna pile this costs onto their tenants, aren’t they? So in the end the tenants are the ones paying for it, not the landlords.

If a landlord tried to charge me $50 a month for a meth detector, I'd move. A very small fraction of this is going to be passed on to tenants.

It’ll be added to your lease. They don’t break out your rent payment into “sidewalks, hallways, carpet, walls, sink, faucet, fixtures...” but those costs are there. They’ll bury meth detection in the rent payment, and that’s that.

Then their apartment would be $50/month over the competition, so I wouldn't move there. If they could charge that, they'd already be doing it. You can't just "offload costs," it's not how pricing works.

This is correct. If some given set of landlords can get away with charging $50 more per month, they'd already be doing it. Some individual landlords might be irrational, but as a whole property isn't a market where people leave money on the table.

if this thing works and the meth epidemic is that severe for this being a serious issue and not security theater, you'll pay the 50$ just to live in the meth free area, because the 50$ cheaper neighborhood will pool all the meatheads

not overnight of course, but there will be a zoning effect at some point, as there always is, where some neighborhoods pool similarly minded people, as neither offer nor demand is really elastic.

Sure, but it's not that severe. Meth detectors are rare, and frankly so is meth usage.

Correct according to your model. You are talking theory and imagine you talk about truth.

Sort of, while prices converge to a slowly moving average, some people are indeed paying a bit more and other s bit less. Maybe people who end up getting properties with meth alarms will be the ones paying a bit more. With time, if having meth detectors is an effective way to keep out tenants who will devalue the property in some way, it will be incorporated and the tenants will be paying the price of it.

If meth is an actual problem, maybe it pays for itself in decontamination savings?

some of the easiest ways of making meth have a serious risk of fire or explosion. perhaps that is what they're worried about?

>Q Can I discontinue my monitoring subscription at any time?

No, you'll quickly become addicted to the peace of mind and security you feel from using Meth Minder, finding it near impossible to give up. At this point our montly rate increases to $5K/month and you will do anything to ensure your monthly fix. We've secured $100M in VC on our incredibly low churn due to the addictive nature of our product.

A meth detecting product that you cannot stop paying for once after your first use. Interesting

This is why you want to have laws protecting the privacy of one's home: landlords shouldn't even have the choice to do this.

Wow, this is the most New Zealand landlord thing ever. I bet they've installed the Meth Minder but don't provide proper heating still.

can't you heat your apartment with the residual from cooking meth?

Wow, first time I’ve seen something like this. The pricing model is a little expensive too.

What’s next? Weed detectors? War on drugs seems to be pure profiteering.

I think Sex Detectors... don't want your tenant to have sex and leave stains on your furniture! Sex is for hotels!

"If you wanted to have sex, you should've checked the tenancy agreement before you signed it."

Edit: this was my attempt at a joke! it's satirical

There is considerable scope for universities or any other organisation to ensure that assaults or even unwanted consensual activities are not taking place on their property.

This raises the interesting question - now prevention is more practical and thus enforceable are we likely to see a tightening of behavioural standards and social norms either because the technology allows it or because that's the easiest way to avoid the technology. In either case it seems that a relaxed attitude to social behaviour may be on the way out.

> There is considerable scope for universities or any other organisation to ensure that assaults or even unwanted consensual activities are not taking place on their property.

woah i don't fully understand this or the [to you, interesting] question you posed, but I want to say that my post was satire...

landlords (even university campuses) have no business meddling in 'unwanted consensual activities'

as your naming suggests it is a 'consensual' activity, so there is no problem. being puritanical/prude about sex between young people is another thing.

if American universities don't want people having sex in shared dorms with single-beds, then they could create European university style en-suite bedrooms that share a common area + kitchen...

honestly American standards and customs scare the fuck out of me sometimes [1]

[1] https://qz.com/1743640/us-abortion-politics-are-affecting-gl...

I believe gp was referring to places where sex is already forbidden by a property owner such as classrooms and offices, where if someone walks in on you having sex, you're the weird one because you shouldn't be having sex there, someone could walk in on you, there's no expectation of privacy. It's their property and they're paying you to be there temporarily to provide a service.

> landlords (even university campuses) have no business meddling in 'unwanted consensual activities'

Agreed, and I think GP would as well. Dorms are different. That's your domicile, the relationship with a university is that of a landlord/tenant. You're paying for a place to sleep and live. There's an expectation of privacy. If you walk into someone's dorm while they're having sex, why the hell are you barging into someone's room?

That being said seeing a sex detector hanging from the ceiling would make me sad.

If you buy this logic for universities, then surely government has an even greater interest in ensuring assaults aren't taking place. So shall we mandate every private apartment has microphones installed, to catch terrorists and child molesters, and stop the spread of hateful ideologies?

Or perhaps we want to limit activities that apartments weren't licensed for, like working from home, babysitting, exercise, more than 3 guests at a time, alcohol consumption... activities forbidden by the rental agreement unless you pay extra. By letting you pay a lower rent if you don't need those activities, landlords can pass the savings on to you, the consumer! You wouldn't want to forbid such practices and force higher prices on renters who don't need those perks, would you?

The above is satire for now, but it'll happen if we let it, guaranteed.

> The above is satire for now, but it'll happen if we let it, guaranteed.

Man am I excited for the Handmaid's Tale America!

edit: I'd written a more cynical and satirical comment than this, yet unfortunately dang asked me not to write in the ways i have written before - so i've had to file it in my notes instead. if anyone knows a place or community for 'radical leftists' like me to talk about things like this, please do let me know

I feel like 4chan might be a better fit for you - a brilliant satirical wit such as yours would find a more receptive audience there.

"if anyone knows a place or community for 'radical leftists' like me to talk about things like this, please do let me know"

Twitter!

If you mean "loud minority pretending to be radical leftists but rather just signalling virtue in a competition of who is more woke", then yes :)

> signalling virtue in a competition of who is more woke

damn you got me. it is my inner sjw that likes to critique harmful systems

Maybe you'll like bunkerchan, although sometimes it goes so anti idpol that becomes reactionary.

Why the heck should universities be concerned with the sex lives of their students? Or am I reading your comment incorrectly?

Sounds like a private/religious university kind of thing; something a Mormon school like BYU might do.

As for 'should'.. well it seems obvious to me they shouldn't. But I think they do.

Meth contaimination is a huge problem and can be very costly to remediate. It's mostly from cooking meth but even using can contaiminate a house causing 6 figures in damages.

More info about this: https://www.google.de/amp/s/arstechnica.com/science/2019/10/... — sounds pretty bad.

Re: contamination from use: If you look into it, you'll find the "contamination" is that with a sensitive enough test, you can tell it's there.

The six figures in damages tend to be self-inflicted. The NZ government spent hundreds of millions on "meth house" remediation that by any rational analysis didn't need to be done.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104287037/rental-met...

Agree that manufacture is a totally different story.

Sure maybe the standards are too stringent but that's cold comfort to the landlord that has to meet them. They're still out the money whether or not it was actually necessary.

What kind of contamination are we talking about here? Does it enter the walls and the smell is hard to get rid of?

It gets aerosolized and then eventually settles on every surface of the house. The residue can be washed off sometimes. If not you need to take everything down to the studs and put new drywall & flooring in.

Interesting. It deposits as crystal meth or some residue of it? Does it emit a smell? Almost all aerosol substances as far as i know deposit everywhere. Cigarette smoke pentrates walls too but usually is not a huge problem un unless a heavy smoker inhabitated the place.

I wish my previous SF apartment had obnoxious chemical detectors. Smells and smokes and chemicals don't just stay in one apartment, and the management couldn't track down their source, despite being strong enough to cause health problems for others.

The war on drugs is total BS, but so is trashing a place and sickening neighbors just for your own selfish high. There are ways to do things that are respectful of others.

Meth Detector, Ha! Meth heads will just place a ziplock bag with a rubber band around just like all of the weed smokers in hotels. Never underestimate the "creativity" of a tweaker.

Perhaps this is more to prevent the place from becoming a meth lab rather than a place where one smokes meth.

Can't say I've ever smelled it. Is it very distinct?

The point still remains, a tweaker will always find a way. If the plastic bag over the detector is enough to block the smoker's fumes, why would a tweaker not think it would be good enough to block a lab's? Again, we're talking about tweakers. They can come up with crazy ideas, but it doesn't mean they are good ones.

Perhaps the detector can detect if air isn't circulating around it anymore, no idea.

Look on the bright side, if you ever decide to buy math you have a good way to find out if it’s the real thing.

By local law you can probably take it off and put it back when you’re gone.

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