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Comment by conradev | Hacker News Reader

I found this article incredibly illuminating:

https://theintercept.com/2019/10/18/coca-cola-recycling-plas...

The United States is seemingly uniquely bad at this, thanks to - you guessed it - corporate greed. Container deposit laws work:

> The United States' overall beverage container recycling rate is approximately 33%, while states with container deposit laws have a 70% average rate of beverage container recycling.

but, of course, only ten states in the US have them:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_deposit_legislatio...

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A significant fraction of that 70% is collected by homeless individuals and others living below the poverty line, for whom recycling is a zero cost, zero training income source that can pay out the same day. If our (California) social safety nets were effective, I suspect the collection rate would be more in line with the national average.

I love this comment because it's a great example of how the exact same data can be used to support opposing narratives. The raw data here is that California sees a certain quantity of bottle recycling and has a certain level of social safety net.

* One narrative is that the high bottle recycling rate shows a problem with the social safety net.

* Another narrative is that recycling rate shows that it is itself functioning as part of the solution to the social safety net.

Sort of like how a high rate of airbag use could make a statement about how safe or unsafe driving is.

I don't know which of these narratives is closer to the truth, but I think it's good example to use to help train ourselves to realize that many narratives are possible and part of critical thinking is not jumping too quickly from raw data to any one particular interpretation.

> Another narrative is that recycling rate shows that it is itself functioning as part of the solution to the social safety net.

In my experience, no one in good faith argues that bottle deposits are a part of the social safety net, let alone a functional part.

Edit: to clarify, mine is a US centric experience. I think the argument for recycling collection as a tool of economic mobility is perfectly sound as long as it's not economically coercive (i.e. if the safety net is adequate without resorting to roaming the streets collecting recyclable material).

Doubling the bottle deposit to help the homeless was a suggestion made by the German satirical party „die PARTEI“.

Äh, 'Tschullijung? Sie ham de Pfandring verjesse!

https://duckduckgo.com/q=Pfandring

It is a part of the safety net, whether it was designed that way or not. Note that I'm not claiming that it should be.

Unfortunately it puts the collectors at risk, because it incentivizes them to root through garbage cans full of potentially dangerous material without any protective equipment. And in the end its a complete waste of their time. If the government wants to earmark that money for them, they should just do that, and let those people do something meaningful like job training, or raising grandchildren, or whatever, instead of being up to their elbows in broken glass and used condoms in the middle of the night. Most of the recyclable material was already in somebody's recycling bin already, so it's not like they're cleaning up the environment or any other social good.

The solution is more data. Let's see how CA rates compare to that of say... MA, which has a significantly less population of homeless.

In Oregon it is amazing how effective this program is. You never see cans or bottles as litter.

Another effect is it lowers your garbage/recycling bill as homeless will often rummage through your bins for cans/bottles freeing up bin space so you never really have an overflow problem of glass or cans.

The pickers in my neighborhood are a nuisance. If my recyling bin is full, then they move good recyclables from my recycling bin to my trash bin in order to try to find cans and bottles. Often, then don't move them back when they're done rummaging.

Yeah, in theory I have 0 problem with people picking through the dumpsters at my place. In practice though trash gets thrown around outside the dumpster for the wind to make a mess of the parking lot with. I wouldn't care at all if they would just pick up after themselves. But they don't - so I do care.

So why not provide a bin for them for the deposit recyclables? I'll tell you what, if you would like to pick out your preferred bin, show me it, and I'll pay for it for you. If that's really your problem then I can make the effort with a simple and easy solution.

lol same here. Homeless in DTLA kick the cans over when possible and leave the other refuse on the ground.

California hit a 110% plastic bottle recycling rate at one point. The California Highway Patrol has been stopping semitrailer trucks coming into the state with plastic bottles for recycling.

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