Comment by nabla9 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nabla9 | Hacker News Reader

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Definition of gray market

Merrian-Webster: a market employing irregular but not illegal methods especially : a market that legally circumvents authorized channels of distribution to sell goods at prices lower than those intended by the manufacturer https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gray%20market

Investopedia: A grey market is a market in which goods have been manufactured by or with the consent of the brand owner but are sold outside of the brand owner's approved distribution channels—an activity that can be perfectly legal. In the securities markets, a grey market is a market wherein a company's shares are traded before they are issued in an initial public offering (IPO). https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/greymarket.asp

Wikipedia: A grey or gray market (sometimes confused with the similar term "parallel market")[1][2] refers to the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are not authorized by the original manufacturer or trade mark proprietor. Grey market products (grey goods) are products traded outside the authorized manufacturer's channel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market

Conclusion: Grey market seems to be the correct term.

The question is not "Does the term grey market have a meaning?" the question posed was "Is the use of the term perpetuating an unhealthy view of commerce to advantage manufacturers?".

After you've been sold a product, the manufacturer has no authority on how you use it or where you resell it. Since the manufacturer doesn't have this authority they you can't be legally circumenvting authorized channels when reselling it.

There is nothing "gray" about second hand.

I concur. If I bought a camera lens in New York and it came with a Malaysian manual and a warranty that's not valid in the US, but it's a genuine Canon lens, that's gray market.

But if I buy a similar lens from the camera shop down the street, and it was originally sold in the US and the warranty is still valid in the US etc, it's a USED lens or a second-hand lens, but there's nothing gray-market about it.

I think you're spot-on here; sources quoted in the article are misusing the term gray-market to simply refer to second-hand parts, which are something completely different. They want to make pre-owned parts sound just as shady, but the're not -- the first-sale doctrine would like a word.

> but it's a genuine Canon lens

How do you know this? More to the point, how does an amateur buying their first lens ever know this?

My friends and I used to buy surprisingly good deal products on Craigslist and see how long it took to determine if they were fakes or broken. It was always one or the other.

I've found a reputable local shop that I trust. In addition to a lot of new stuff, they sell used gear (possibly on consignment?), which means they've got some experts who'll do valuation on it. They have a largely professional clientele and a reputation to uphold, so I think they're trustworthy.

I'm sure I could take a lens to them and have it checked out for a few bucks, or have them broker a sale between me and another private party. Knowing what I'm getting has its own value, and I'm not opposed to paying someone for their time and expertise.

tl;dr: I don't, personally, know that. I trust someone else to know that.

So it sounds like we agree then; the second hand market can be quite dodgy and you need expert help to be sure you're not being ripped off.

Is the product I'm buying a genuine product or a rip-off with the same logo on the outside?

Has something been done to it to void the warranty?

Is this a cheaply done "refurbished" version which will die in 3 months?

Is it stolen?

Seems pretty gray to me.

The use and definition of the term is completely descriptive and accurate. You are projecting some normative and negativity towards good descriptive term.

To show how absurd this subjective projected pejorativity is, lets use it to 'second hand':

>The question is not "Does the term second hand market have a meaning?" the question posed was "Is the use of the term perpetuating an unhealthy view of commerce to advantage manufacturers?".

>There is nothing "second" about selling used products.

"second" is descriptive.

"gray" sounds like it's questionably legal and halfway to "black market". The negativity is definitely part of the term, not imagined.

> After you've been sold a product, the manufacturer has no authority on how you use it or where you resell it.

Unfortunately, this idea is not as settled as you make it sound (around the world). Even in the US, it still pops up - in 2019 SCOTUS heard a case on cheap imported college text books.

Additionally, manufacturers have latitude on who they sell to, and to sign contracts with those intermediaries.

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