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Comment by Waterluvian | Hacker News Reader

One thing I wish I could make my childless peers grok is that THERE IS NO VACATION when you have young kids.

I’m taking this week off and people speak as if I’m on vacation. Please please hear my words literally: my job is my break. Weekends are more physically and intellectually exhausting than weekdays when I get to $&@# off to work for eight hours.

My paid time off is a way to give us a fighting chance at laundry and housecleaning and other chores.

Grocery shopping was my break today. Home Depot was my treat today.

I’m not on vacation. Please help me keep my marbles. Give me a break.

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> One thing I wish I could make my childless peers grok is that THERE IS NO VACATION when you have young kids.

As a childless person who has nevertheless helped a lot with childcare while growing up in a different country, here is a simple family-based solution – ask your family's older members to move in and help with childcare if possible, or move close by. Or ask a cousin or an aunt or a sister to move in with you or close to you, because you need help because you are overwhelmed with your kids.

I bet you won't, because "it's weird" or "it wouldn't work out" or something like that. Yet this is traditionally exactly how parents have distributed the pain of child rearing.

Now think about it – if you can't expect family to help you, why do you expect help from your coworkers in this situation?

The nuclear family in the US is an experiment that has been generally quite stressful, and COVID has thrown it totally out of gear. This doesn't mean it was working too well in the first place.

One example for you:

My parents are dead or gone. We moved in with wife's parents for a few months. It was a lifesaver. But (a) they were still not quite retired and couldn't help much, (b) they're older and don't have a lot of energy, (c) they were "over it" with Covid relatively quickly and wanted to take way more risks than we did.

Oh, and they have four kids, three of whom have multiple kids. We can't all just ask them to move in.

Life is not at all simple.

I am sorry to hear about your parents.

> Life is not at all simple.

This is the primary thesis of all the pro-parent arguments in this thread. And the response from a lot of people is is “Yes, and this is similar to all the other hard family-type situations that people have already found themselves in over the past few decades, and been unable to get help from work for”.

Overall if the outcome from these discussions is a recognition of what you said, and a willingness to be flexible because of people's life circumstances, I'm all for it. If anyone is benefiting from extraordinary flexibility as a parent during this time, they should try and pay it forward by recognizing other people's needs and life circumstances in the future, and being willing to accommodate them by default in the future instead of as a special dispensation.

That is called life. There is no vacation when you have a sick spouse, or bought a new house, or are in a car accident. Your job shouldn't be your break, regardless of your situation.

My wife is at a FAANG company currently covering for 4 people who all get double digit weeks off because they chose to have children. Does she get any time off for literally working 18 hour days 7 days a week? No of course not.

> Your job shouldn't be your break, regardless of your situation.

If it's less stressful that the ambient level in your life, then it's a break. Why shouldn't it be?

If your day-to-day life is that stressful, I strongly encourage you to reach out to the National Parent Helpline at 1-855-427-2736.

Thanks for your concern. I'm pretty sure it's just regular parent stuff vs regular office job though.

Even before COVID, work was my sanity time—my sanctuary. A place with clear goals, a structured path to convert effort into success, a place where I am relatively respected and know what I’m doing. Home with children is more of a messy, emotional, soft-skill-driven, chaotic zoo. Getting a little time off to do more of that is not really a vacation.

> Your job shouldn't be your break

Sarcasm: Yeah, all jobs should be stressful, tedious, and unfriendly. How dare anyone enjoy their work.

She has to work 18 hours a day? 7 days a week?? That doesn't sound like it's the fault of her coworkers on parental leave, that sounds like it's an issue with her manager.

> have a sick spouse or bought a new house, or are in a car accident.

This made me laugh a little because they’re such bad examples unless you’re American. Universal healthcare and sane house prices make these specifically the times you can and should slow down.

The US isn't the only country with insane housing prices - and they are only insane in portions of the country. Look @ buying a house in London or Amsterdam for example.

Although US healthcare is fd though (@ work, not sure if the full f word would trigger something :)

> FAANG > 18 hour days 7 days a week

Really it’s the workers fault when one of the richest companies in the history of the world is working someone to the bone because they can’t figure out staffing?

Now consider that 18 hours of work for Waterluvian right now would be an 18 hour holiday. It's all relative.

It's a hard thing to grok without having experienced it. And yeah I realise how patronising that probably sounds.

> Now consider that 18 hours of work for Waterluvian right now would be an 18 hour holiday. It's all relative.

It really wouldn't though, or they'd happily work 18 hours a day, just to enjoy the holiday, and then retire in a year or two, to enjoy their permanent holiday. They don't, obviously, because it's just a thing to say that sounds cool.

what happens if she stops doing that

I feel you. Took my first "vacation" with our son last week, it was a far more stressful experience that a week working.

My partner is seriously my hero.

Yeah, I'm surprised the headline isn't the other way around: "parents increasingly resentful of their childless peers"

If you made me pick a term it would be closer to pity, not resentment.

Man you people are sooo dramatic. Everyone deals with stuff, dude. It's just what you do.

It is funny because I have seen this reflected a lot with my older co-workers. They work OBSESSIVELY ( although don't seem to get more work done... ), and I independently identified exactly this sentiment: Work is kinda fun when you have a family. There is a beer keg, you hang out with your friends at work, there are clear goals and metrics and putting in more work often has positive results, people listen to you and respect you...

> One thing I wish I could make my childless peers grok is that THERE IS NO VACATION when you have young kids.

This was often overstated prior to the pandemic, but much more true during the pandemic.

Do you have family or close friends that could look after them for a few days?

The one year old isn’t ready for overnights for a number of reasons.

I’m not saying we’re in dire straits here. Being a parent is the most fulfilling thing I’ve ever done. But it’s also the hardest job I’ve ever had. And you can’t wake up and decide to take a me day.

This is a tangent and I'm not trying to belittle your position: but the bit about can't waking up and decide to take a day off reminded me of a country song about how soldiers can't call in sick on Monday, work straight through the holidays.

"And you can’t wake up and decide to take a me day."

I encourage you to do exactly that!

Go to your partner and tell them at X day in the near future, you will take all of the children and do everything and they can have the entire day to themselves.

On the day, pretend as if they are on an airplane: don't call them, don't text them ... really do take care of everything yourself. No matter how stressful it is, do not unload any stress or guilt after the day is over.

Next week it's your turn :)

My wife and I each take a full day each week and a 1-2 week "sabbatical" each year. Recommended.

I secretly miss my long commutes. 90 minutes on a train with no expectations. Good enough internet to surf, not to remote into work or dial into a meeting.

But didn't you know about this before making a decision to have kids?

Almost every parent says this.

This is like a person gambling all their money. Then, they complain when they lose the money.

I wouldn’t trade this for anything. It’s incredible. It’s also a lot of work.

I would encourage you consider that the truly worthwhile things in life aren’t all easy.

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