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Comment by dan_m2k | Hacker News Reader

I’m so pleased that someone isn’t afraid to reject the WFH kool aid.

Just because certain personality types work better in solitude doesn’t mean it’s one-size-fits-all.

Others are suffering loneliness, marginalisation, are struggling inside their own heads, are stuck in tiny apartments or don’t have access to outdoor space. If you hate the office that badly, you’re probably working at the wrong place.

And yeah, a truly creative collaborative working environment can’t be replicated over video call.

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Before you refer to "WFH kool aid", it's critical to realize that the vast majority of jobs have been office-bound and that WFH wasn't even an option for most people who wanted it.

I know I'd rather be coding from a beach than in a fluorescent-lit cubicle (and I do). Even if it's more productive for Bill to barge into my cubicle than wait for me to respond to his Slack message.

Let's at least let our work culture hit a nice 50/50 split between office jobs and remote jobs before we damn the WFH movement too much.

Btw, the "kool aid" you're seeing is companies grappling with a pandemic. It's not like fanatical WFHers have spontaneously become ascendent in our society.

>Let's at least let our work culture hit a nice 50/50 split between office jobs and remote jobs before we damn the WFH movement too much.

I don't think a 50/50 split is required to test out any new idea. All you need is a representative statistical sample.

I don't hate the office, I hate the commute, the food prices, and having to wear pants. Not everyone is you-- some of us really are happier this way!

> If you hate the office that badly, you’re probably working at the wrong place.

That's quite a departure from "WFH isn't one-size-fits-all". If working from home isn't for everyone, why do you assume the office is?

> And yeah, a truly creative collaborative working environment can’t be replicated over video call.

Strongly disagree. I don't think you even real-time communication, much less video is required to have strong collaboration. There are certainly times when it helps, but even in those times I've never felt held back by jumping on a quick call vs an in-person meeting, and we almost never do video.

I really don't understand how people feel like they can communicate as well without being able to read body language.

I hear you, but at least for me and my team we haven't found it to be an issue. FWIW we're all IT. Programmers, sysadmins etc.

As a manager, there are certainly conversations where I find in-person to be beneficial, and for those video calls are a poor substitute. Reviews, raise negotiations, disciplinary conversations, etc, but these are all discussions where an accurate emotional read is critical for both sides.

On the other hand for discussing algorithms, software architecture, network layouts, server specifications, etc, these can certainly be topics with lots of disagreement, requiring lots of conversation, but if your relying on emotional nuance for or other non-verbal cues for communication I think you've got an unacknowledged problem, where people are communicating clearly enough with their words.

I hate everything about WFH. I like travelling to a different environment each day, interacting with my colleagues, being in a space designed for work (proper seating and desks, aircon), looking someone in the eye when I'm talking to them, feeling the bustle of the city centre when I go for a stroll at lunch. Working from home makes me feel like a widget at the end of an internet connection.

Then again I don't have children and I cycle to work so maybe that's the difference.

You are pretty much describing a coworking space or a good library. I don’t know if you own a house, but you might change your opinion once you’ll be on the search.

> being in a space designed for work (proper seating and desks, aircon)

I haven’t seen a corporate space “designed for work” in years thanks to the cult of the open plan office.

Meanwhile at home I have a nice electrically-adjustable standing desk, an Aeron, an air conditioner set to the precise temperature I alone want it to be, and I can go to the coffee house downstairs if I want to hear people bleat about blockchain.

And yeah, a truly creative collaborative working environment can’t be replicated over video call.

Replicating a truly creative collaborative working environment is impossible everywhere.

Truly creative environments are grown from the resources and people available. You can't copy something that worked elsewhere with different people and expect it to work again.

Also, entirely anecdotally, the band The Postal Service are so called because they created their album by sending each other tapes through the post. They were very creative, and living in different cities, so creative remote work has been achieved at least once.

There is very rarely a one size fit all solution, I don’t think many advocates of WFH support everyone doing it.

Also comparing Covid wfh with normal wfh is vastly different and incomparable. Many of us are stuck inside, whereas normal work from home you could go to a coworking space, or a coffee shop, are the beach. Being forced inside is totally different.

Extroverts have subjected introverts to the in-person office for ages. Suddenly the tables have turned and now there's a problem with "one-size-fits-all"? Give me a break.

Many people find working in a busy office overstimulating And filled with far too much activity and noise and it fills them with anxiety.

In an ideal world, workplaces would strike a balance and allow each person the environment to deliver their best work.

It depends entirely what you're working on. If it's just talking with people in a meeting room, that can be entirely replicated. The issue there is that we have bad teleconferencing tools and slow devices/networks such that there is 200ms+ of unnecessary latency on top of the propagation delay, bad quality overcompressed sound, feedback or noise cancelling issues, and so on. Video teleconferencing is in its infancy, engineering wise. Zoom and friends are mediocre at best.

It goes both ways, just because certain personality types work better in a social environment doesn't mean it's a one-size-fits-all. If you hate your living condition that badly, you probably should move somewhere else.

What we should be advocating for is an inclusive policy that allows employees to choose how they want to work.

> If you hate the office that badly, you’re probably working at the wrong place.

You were doing pretty well until this sentence.

> If you hate the office that badly, you’re probably working at the wrong place.

I couldn't agree more with this, and from a lot of comments from the past months, this is something that seems to be a big issue with people wanting to work from home.

Excellent comment

speaking to this: If you hate the office that badly, you’re probably working at the wrong place.

What percentage of people who 'prefer WFH' are just people who don't like where they work and who they work with?

Would be interesting if someone did a survey on this

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