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I used vim for more then 5 years then switched to VSCode as it makes plugin setup much easier. I also use VS and JetBrains here and there and maybe I am biased, but I prefer code at this point.

Yeah, modern IDEs got some stuff from modern editors for sure. One of the primary pain points for me is that installation/setup of IDE is much more lengthy, they are pricey too - I can setup vim/code in minutes on empty machine. Just downloading/installing VS takes a bunch of time. This however has nothing to do with efficiency but counts overall.

> There are Ace Jump [0] plugins for most IDEs. imo, easier to use and more powerful than stock vi navigation commands.

The page you posted lists InteliJ Platform. Vim doesn't have such plugin OTB FYI.

> Also, does tabbing in the emacs command buffer count as "browsing the GUI?" I think so.

If tabbing is done via mouse, yes.

> Does it count if you "browse the GUI" without ever touching the mouse?

Ofc not, I prefer to have a GUI, I just don't think analog controller like mouse is good way to interact with it.

> I also think that there is a strange magical thinking-esque hang-up against any UI that can't be drawn in a terminal.

That might have been a real thing when people did things on servers directly etc. Today there is almost 0 need to do so.

> I also think that there is a strange magical thinking-esque hang-up against any UI that can't be drawn in a terminal.

There's nothing magical about it.

I prefer text based interfaces whenever available as they are generally more responsive, light on resources, use less network bandwidth, and are inherently compatible with SSH. They also tend to be very minimal, having far fewer extraneous features (ie fiddly distractions) due to the inherent design constraints.

If one isn't available though then I'm happy to use a modern GUI (my web browser is an example). In fact, GUIs consistently seem to be more newbie friendly so if it's a one off I might actually avoid a text based interface just to save time.

> I say it all the time, but I think a lot of power vi/emacs users have not touched a modern IDE in a long time.

Watch as my eyes roll out of my head, onto the floor, and then out the door.

Why is it that you believe the only reason why a vi/emacs user could believe those environments are faster to edit in is because they don't use IDE's?

The worst part is that most vi/emacs users actually DO have experience in both environments, whereas most of the people who want to claim vi/emacs isn't any faster don't. Yet they want to present themselves as an authority.

And I'm one of the people who refuse to use vim emulators in IDE's because they're never quite right (and never integrate well with the IDE).

> Why is it that you believe the only reason why a vi/emacs user could believe those environments are faster to edit in is because they don't use IDE's?

Anecdotal, personal experience, including seeing constant outright incorrect claims about graphical IDEs in threads like these.

The claims usually take the form of: "I use vi/emacs because I can do xyz using only the keyboard" - where xyz is something that most IDEs maybe couldn't do 15+ years ago, but which they all can do today.

I see this a lot from those who prefer IDE's.

It's not generally that people are saying it's impossible to do in an IDE, just that it's slower to do, and generally more awkward.

Just the other day on reddit I was having this "discussion" with someone, in which they claimed that because they have "find in files" in their IDE it's equivalent to vim `grep -iRl whatever`.

In reality I'm going to do what you're trying to do in a fraction of the time. IDE's have their advantages, but speed is not one of them.