Hacker News Reader

Comment by electricslpnsld | Hacker News Reader

I wish I had that kind of insight into my ‘performance’ pre-review! I’m at a FAANG right now and given my interactions with my manager alone, I figured I was bombing performance-wise (constant complaints about my work, refuses to acknowledge any accomplishments, super angry at me during one on ones, assigns piles of work that ‘need’ to be done by Monday on Friday at 6pm and then doesn’t even acknowledge the completion of the work next week, ...). Come performance review time on the other hand I’ve had awesome peer reviews, performance ratings, stock refreshes, etc for the past four biannual performance cycles. Given the complete mismatch here between how I feel I’m doing and how my manager treats me, I’m actually pretty happy we have this performance review system in place. Probably just need a new manager...

View on HN

Stop your manager in their tracks next 1:1 and state you have some feedback about how you're feeling here. Start by noting that it's a very stressful time right now and that these concerns are even more important for you. Your manager would likely be hurt if you left and good managers appreciate upwards feedback so that they can correct on their side.

The fact that the performance rating is good means your manager probably is acknowledging the work you do, just not to you. The manager input for ratings is hugely important at the FAANGs, so your manager is clearly telling others you're doing a great job. There's just clearly a gap here between you and her/him in that feedback.

Source: Am a manager at one of the FAANGs. I'm finding that everyone is overthinking every bit of feedback right now. Clearly minor feedback is hard to differentiate compared to major feedback. Likely due to the video communications barrier and that everyone is a little bit more alone with their thoughts. I'm being cautious on delivery because of it. There's also less ad-hoc thank you's and acknowledgements going around due to the remote barriers.

> Stop your manager in their tracks next 1:1

BAD idea with most managers. Your manager is likely to be vindictive and insecure if confronted like that. Even with peer reviews in place managers have disproportionate influence on your reviews, and promo/comp decisions (something you readily acknowledge). If the manager treats you with disdain, it's almost impossible to fully reverse that - it's just human nature, let alone do so through confrontation.

The best thing is to move on to greener pastures, of which there's vast abundance at any FANG. People can move around easily there by design: that way shitty managers get naturally de-staffed. Anything else is a sunk cost fallacy. Do yourself a favor, and go to a team where you're appreciated, respected, and can work alongside decent people. Do not tolerate this abuse. Otherwise your career will stall, you won't be able to do anything about it, and you'll feel miserable throughout.

Source: been there, done that.

Yes. Suck up to the boss, then say you're interested in a new opportunity at Team X, or, sadly, you've accepted an offer to work somewhere else, or, you are quitting for personal reasons.

That's why I liked Google so much: you don't have to "suck up" to anybody. If things aren't working out, figure out what you'd like to do instead and 2 weeks later you're working on that, if they have spots on the team and would like your help. You may be asked to stay a bit longer, say 6 weeks, but the process is very non-confrontational. It's not like that for junior people, though - if you're junior you have to stay in your position for at least a year, which IMO is dumb - people who work there have no problems finding employment elsewhere. It should never be harder to move within the company than _outside_ the company.

Yeah for a big company there is no excuse. Smaller companies might be more impacted by giving people this freedom but maybe the advantages outweigh the disadvantages anyway.

I both agree with you and agree with your parent.

Yes, the chances of retaliation from your manager is not insignificant.

However, the experience with a good manager is always fantastic. If I don't trust my manager enough to give him negative feedback, I don't want to stay in the team. Giving negative feedback is one of the few reliable ways to discover if you have a good manager. I'd rather know than not know.

Source: Also been there and done that (and paid the price, but it was worth it).

The worst thing, though, is to put up with it. I tried it and it didn't end well either, which put me on the path of "Well if it's going to suck, it's better to be vocal than not."

This is the correct advice. Management is just another arm of HR and HR is not your friend.

Nobody at any company they don't own should be under any illusions that they're viewed as anything other then replaceable labor. Your salary like everyone else's gets lumped into the expenses column, and your accomplishments don't appear on that spreadsheet next to your name at all.

As just a random internet person, please, let me agree that you need a new manager. Other than yourself, no person has more impact on your job, and if you're taking shit and dong well, you can do so much better.

Also, never forget that your performance is 'capped' by your management chain. While others may see that you are amazing, the best they will be able to do is poach you to their team, but they can't override your manager's feelings about raises, promos, etc.

(I feel like I'm talking to past me, who I really wish I could have told this to earlier.)

I've heard that its your manager's manager that is important to your career. Your manager can't actually promote you, except by recommending you as their replacement if promoted or transferred. Your manager's manager can either promote you or work a deal with their peers to get you promoted.

If your manager is keeping your performance results from being reflected upwards, you have a problem.

A promotion doesn't mean you have to take on the role of your manager, it generally means you have expanded (or new) responsibilities and expectations. For larger companies career progression broadly falls under either an individual contributor (IC) track or a leadership track. As an IC you can grow your career from Engineer to Senior Engineer to Staff Engineer without changing managers or teams, and there is a similar progression for leadership.

Becoming a manager because you think that is the only ladder to climb is definitely the wrong choice. I think a great manager is also a leader who takes an active interest in the motivation, growth, and outcomes of their team. If a management team worked the way you describe (manager's managers run the show and broker deals with their peers for micromanaged promotions), that would be an extremely dysfunctional environment.

In my experience it is always the direct manager who recommends someone for promotion rather than the next level up (although your manager's manager likely has final approval on budget). As a manager, I support and coach my team toward their career growth aspirations with regular performance & growth conversations. I also try to ensure my direct manager has visibility on the state of the team, but ultimately they are expected to be looking at a bigger picture and trust that I am taking care of my team.

They're both important if you are in a large corp.

They both need to praise and recommend you in order for you to be promoted (your manager has more to do on that). A bad word from either will kill any prospect of promotion instantly.

They both need to carry their weight for the team and the department respectively. They put a ceiling on what your team and your department can do and can get (work, budget, opportunities). In a bad case there's simply no slot for promotion so you can't be promoted. In the worst case your team/department might get gutted.

Alternatively your manager could proactively give you bits and pieces of that positive feedback without being forced to by a formal, time-consuming process.

And this is at a company that supposedly prioritizes constant feedback, we even have multiple mandatory training sessions per year on providing fast feedback. Go figure...

Or just talk to them regarding how you feel. I concur with one of the commenters below regarding FAANG - you rarely get good feedback if your manager is not supportive of you.

Is this Amazon? It sounds like Amazon...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com