Overcoming Impostor Syndrome | Hacker News Reader

Overcoming Impostor Syndrome

jeanhsu.com

99 pointsjeanhsu22 comments

>In college, I never took a course on Compilers or Programming Languages...

>I got the job through a summer internship, which allowed me to bypass the rigorous 8-interviews-in-a-day hiring process. And I lucked out... completely escaped having to code over the phone.

I'm not trying to troll. However, I honestly do consider you landing a Google engineering internship/job with those school background (and zero coding experience outside of school up to that point) being pretty lucky. Consider this guy[1]. I believe he would've most likely gotten the internship had he gone through the same interview process as you. I know that's just my subjective opinion. However, the bottom line is he went through a very different (arguably harder) interview process than you did. It's harder in the sense you could have very well failed had you been asked to code over google doc + phone. The key factor here is this process that Google uses everyday to turn down countless competent but not extraordinary people - you did not have to go through it. That is the basis I deem you lucky.

There is a certain level of respect (among other befits) given to former or current Google engineers among hackers. And I would argue that is the case largely because of the very difficult process that they had to through to become one. I can totally understand why you had the sense of inferiority and insecurity of your coding abilities, having not gone through that process.

Of course none of this makes your point of everyone is good at different things and you should not beat yourself up any less significant. I agree with you on most other points. I'm also happy for you that you've overcome these self defeating thoughts and have proven to yourself. As some one else mentioned in the comments, the problem was you being you own toughest critic.

[1]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2384018

hiring processes depend a lot on luck, way more than maybe we'd like to think, mostly based on who you know and whether the person across the table 'likes' you or not, and what positions are available. but she succeeded in the real world internship position she held and did good enough work that other people vouched for her to become an employee. that probably wasn't a 'lucky break' at all.

I think that a large amount of things like getting internships is luck. You have to be good, yes, but you also have to be lucky.

But what you do with the opportunity that you were lucky to get is up to you.

This of course brings to mind Yegge's interview loop theory: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-goog...

Argh, and I was contemplating applying for a product manager role at google. After reading this i wont be applying anytime soon -it's been over 10 years since I studied data structures and algorithms.

That article is 3 years old. Don't let one article dissuade you! You should apply anyway if you want to work there.

There are a lot of good programmers that don't code for fun outside of class. I didn't code in my internship interviews, but I certainly did during my 12 week internship, and the two conversion interviews I had at the end of the internship. Whether or not that was harder than that guy's interview process is debatable, but that's the way I looked at for awhile.

People dread the Google interviews because they are painful and exhausting. Not because they are a good test of ability.

In my experience, Google's interview process is very random. You never know when you're going to get some jackass who wants to ask you some aha-problem question. When I was at Google we had some interns who were forced to reinterview, and some of the best were knocked out by a question about betting on the color of shells chosen in complete darkness or some such nonsense.

Side note -- I had impostor syndrome at Google because I had only gotten through the interviews, and never done any CS coursework.

What do you call the opposite of impostor syndrome? When someone thinks they made it to their awesome position by being awesome, whereas in fact they were just lucky?

Alternatively, how about the syndrome where someone blames bad luck for their failures, but in fact their failures are really just due to the fact that they personally suck?

according to wikipedia, this is called the "dunning-kruger effect": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

That is a related but different phenomenon. What you're looking for is called "self-serving bias." https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Self-serving_... The dunning-kruger effect is much more subtle than that, take another look at the wiki article on it.

Also related, the actor-observer bias, which describes the opposite effect, and has had more research done on it. This is a common problem in psychology, humans are so full of contradiction.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Actor%E2%80%9...

ah yes that does seem more accurate. thanks!

"jerk" would be a descriptive term.

Great article.

Wanted to comment on this "The first project I did on my own was jeansbargains ... I built it and then realized that I did not want to spend the time looking for deals to put on it"

This seems to run as a common theme in many engineer friends (including myself, several times.) When approached with a sales-like problem, such as a opening a store or a SaaS product, or even starting a social network, we dig into the code first and build, but then get stymied by the "business stuff" necessary to get things off the ground. This might mean not e-mailing potential customers, sales leads, blogging, etc. In the meantime, we'd spend time polishing back-end code that no one will end up using.

I have several unfinished projects due to this syndrome (does it have a name?) And while I am not better at this yet, reading HN has definitely inspired me to do more than just code in that regard.

> does it have a name?

The division of labour. Different people have different strengths and preferences. Gains are made from trading on those differences.

Also The law of comparative advantage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

I'm my own worst critic. I'm never satisfied. Despite countless praise, I always focus on the critique. What can I do better? I'm far too hard on myself, but it's hard to be anything but that. For me, the problem is I focus on what I don't know rather than what I do know. I see what I know as common knowledge, and figure everyone knows it. I see people doing really cool things, and ignore the stuff I've done in the past. So I worry that maybe all the good things people say are merely because I'm good at hiding my inefficiencies.

It's easy to realize you have these problems. The problem though, is it an impostor syndrome, or are you really an impostor? Considering you are always seeing your work as less than perfect, it's easy to believe the latter.

I see this in so much that I do. I cannot just enjoy learning something new. I have to learn the right way, and that means understanding everything. If I'm learning a new language, my first inclination is to rewrite the Hello World example that's posted, because it's not right. So I skip past the introduction and start looking for implementing things properly.

I accept in others supposed deficiencies that I do not tolerate in myself, and it holds me back.

It is, I believe, my greatest weakness.

When I started my doctorate years ago, one of the college dons told the first-years that everybody is afraid we'll be "found out", and that somehow our previous track record was merely a fluke. He said these feelings were normal and that we should just let them go. I haven't worried about it since.

There was once a billboard campaign on the tube in london that played on impostor syndrome, while managing at the same to be a double entendre.

The slogan went: "Faking it? Try a new position."

Too bad I can't admit to feeling a bit of relief upon learning about the impostor syndrome, since doing so would certainly out me as the fraud I am.

Hah I had the exact same feeling of relief upon learning that this was an actual thing. But yah, don't tell anyone that.

>For others trying to overcome impostor syndrome, consider this: that you have benefited from multiple strokes of luck that have no basis on your actual ability or performance is highly unlikely. It's much more likely that you've gotten to where you are because of your achievements.

uhh, dammit. not helping.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com