Airline pilots landing at LAX report “a guy in jetpack” flying alongside them
thedrive.com
thedrive.com
Unfortunately their web player is not linkable, but this is the KLAX North/South Final Approach feed (https://www.liveatc.net/archive.php?m=klax6) from Aug 31, 0130-0200 UTC.
Don't get me wrong! I'm not trying to demotivate you. Just letting you know that maybe they'll turn you down. However, even if they do so, you can always learn a lot by doing so... and it's quite cheap, and redundancy is always welcome, right? :)
ATC: Traffic off to your right, north complex, the airplane. Traffic to your SOUTH, do you see anything out there?
Pilot: We've got the traffic in sight, and we're looking for the, err, jetpack guy
No. Yves "Jetman" Rossi's design can now launch from a standing position on the ground. It is able to launch, hover, transition to forward flight and zoom-climb to several thousand feet. Other than the landing, which is currently still via parachute ... ironman.
What is the behind/top?
www.jetman.com has more infos
But nothing on the actual jetpack, like how the engine works.
But here they actually fly next to a jet. So maybe it was those guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VPvKl6ezyc&feature=emb_rel_...
I think you can rule out the multirotor bathtubs for now.
“Uh...no?”
I imagine a jet pack forces some interesting takes on related technology that pilots are used to having access to when in a cockpit.
"Mr. Braithwaite, would you step into my office? Bring your license, and a match."
(FYI those hobby jets are one option, but there are considerably more capable small jets available, mostly used for cruise missiles and heavy drones.)
"Do you see that man in the suit over there?"
"the suspect in body armor was described as being 6 feet tall."
"man in an orange shirt" is the title of a popular pbs show.
etc etc etc.
Yves Rossy's wing: Optimized for forward flight, has VTOL capability, bulky.
Zapata's flyboard: Good middle ground, VTOL with decent speed, restricts ground movement.
Gravity jetsuit: Optimized for hovering, lightweight, can walk in it.
They're all doing much the same thing though, strap some jets onto a human and allow them to fly with VTOL.
There are a number of new jetpack-like designs that are remarkably capable, but all have very limited range and most have only very low-altitude flight envelopes. Yves "Jetman" Rossi's winged jetpack is definitely capable of such a feat, but his flights have always occurred under highly controlled and well-coordinated circumstances and in sanitized airspace. They are also very high-profile in nature and require a mothership to launch from, such as a helicopter, or at least a very high point to leap from.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/17/tech/jetman-dubai-trnd/index....
"The achievement occurred last Friday, when Jetman pilot Vince Reffett took off from a standing start on the runway at Skydive Dubai in the United Arab Emirates and then flew up to nearly 6,000 feet in altitude. He demonstrated the ability to hover, stop, turn and maneuver."
Go to about 3 minutes in to see the take off from standing and continuing to hover.
It wouldn't be hard to maneuver it right in front of the airliner and cause a collision. While the aircraft would likely survive an engine strike, at only a few thousand feet of altitude it doesn't give much time to recover.
Society's based on some amount of mutual trust. We can't lock everything down and treat every person as a potential criminal. That leads to an inefficient and dystopian country.
That's why you have to pay for insurance (in most places at least) so that you are pre-paying for your liability.
Would have been top news if it weren't for the fact that America was reeling from an explosion of cases in the COVID19 pandemic.
It's pretty easy to significantly distrust rail transportation. There are hundreds of rail suicides every year, and each and every time the line shuts down until everything's cleaned up. And of course you could destructively interfere with the train or railway, a rather common sabotage operation during WWII.
It would be much more severe if it occurred at, say, 300 feet. Not enough time to fully react, but still far enough from touchdown that sacrificing speed could lead you to a stall before you get it on the ground, or before the autothrottle can respond (on the other engine(s)).
You don't want the autothrottle to add thrust in an asymmetric situation, that's far more dangerous than losing a couple of kt or temporarily accepting a small deviation below glideslope. Because with asymmetric thrust, any power change causes yaw that you need to counteract that with rudder. You want manual control over both to ensure they happen in coordination.
Immediately before takeoff, the autothrottle is configured to maintain V2 speed; so no, an engine failure on takeoff is an event you are always already prepared for.
EDIT: For the 777 for example, and (that I know of) all other Boeing aircraft and probably Airbus too (but don't quote me on that), you can also see your V-speeds on the speed tape during the takeoff roll. This video shows them on the 777, they're the green numbers on the far left. The flight crew also calls them out. Finally, the green arrow pointing upwards or downwards is the projection of what your speed will be 10 seconds from now. Note how the programmed speed (top left, purple) is the V2 speed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw9P-aMFYE0
That is why I never understand people who back flying car projects.
Others have also mentioned its not impossible to weaponize a laptop battery. Hell get enough cell phones on board?
“Tower, there’s a guy in a jetpack flying outside.”
“Copy. To your left or your right?”
It was surreal listening to them talk about the catastrophe but all while maintaining a total sense of calm.
http://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/...
"On 9/11, I was listening to Ch. 9. I was on a flight out of ORD to AZ (757) seated in 5F. We had just taken off and where climbing to cruise. A flight out of Rockford, IL was squeezing between us and the UA in front of us. I watched as he lined up to get on the highway westbound. Then, abruptly, the Rockford flight called ATC and requested immediate clearance to return to home. ATC responded with some quick direction and asked if they were experiencing trouble. No, just directed to return home by company pronto. Hmmm, strange I thought.
Then the UA in front of us requested emergency clearance back to ORD. Loooong pause from ATC. Now, this is Chicago Center air space. There are no pauses. Certainly not 30-40 seconds of dead air. Hmm, man that is weird, I thought. Then like a starters pistol went off, the comm light up. Another plane req. clearance, then another, another.... boom, boom, boom. Nothing from ATC. I nudged the guy next to me and said put on Ch. 9. He could see by the expression on my face, I was serious.
ATC got on the air and started by saying this was going to go quick and pilots needed to listen up. "Protocol responses are not required, just do exactly as I say quickly". Then it began. "UA ###, turn right heading blah, blah expect Springfield airport. SWA ###, turn left heading blah, blah expect Rockford. Delta ###...." This went on for about 3 solid minutes before I rang the bell for the FA who was passing out breakfast. Our number had not yet been called. The FA came by and I said "We are all going back to O'Hare, they are landing every plane in the sky. What is going on?!?" She looked at me in disbelief and kind of leaned down to look out the window. I could see that she was about to start to tell me not to worry about it when we pitched right at about 45*s. It was so quick it nearly dumped the FA in my lap.
Her expression changed quickly. I could see she knew that was no turn you make in a 757 under normal conditions. She said, I will be right back and picked up the comm. She went flush. Not saying a word, not "ok", not "goodbye", not "I understand"... nothing, she hung up the phone. I don't know why I remember that she did not respond so vividly in my mind but it took the whole thing up a notch for me. I knew she thought this was very serious and was scared. She walked right back to me, scooped up my tray and said in a voice full of authority, "Pull up your chair, put away your tray table and buckle up, now. We are landing in a few minutes. The pilot will be on with more instructions in a few minutes." I was frozen. In the ten steps it took her to get from the phone to me, her whole demeanor changed from shocked to pissed.
By this time, ATC comm on ch. 9 had been cut off. We were pitching left and right, then right and left and descending fast. It was about 5 minutes before the pilot came on and said "Ladies and gentlemen, please listen very carefully, We have been instructed by the FAA to land immediately. There has been a security breach in the system and we will be on the ground in Chicago in a few minutes. Listen carefully to the FAs instructions and do as they as say please." click. Huh!?! Instructed by the FAA? Not ATC... FAA!! Whaaa?!? Security breach in "the system"? What does that mean? Did some guy run through the check point at the airport? Now, I was scared.
A couple more minutes of quick turns and fast drops go by. The pilot (a woman, I don't know why I mention that but I remember it clearly) comes back on the comm. "This is the captain. We will be landing quickly in Des Moines, IA. Flight attendants, please prepare the cabin." click. Hard turn right, hard turn left... the FAs are barking out instructions on the comm. Now I can see planes everywhere around us. There had to be a dozen so close I could tell the company clearly. I could discern the 7-5s from the 7-3s, the AB320s from the 319s.
We were at about 8 thousand by now. It was less than 3 minutes since we last heard from the pilot and she was on again. "This is the captain. We will be landing at the Quad Cities airport in 4 minutes. When we land we have been instructed not to approach the terminal. Please remain calm and we will back with instructions as soon as possible." click. Now I could hear a woman crying a few rows behind me.
Our last turn to hit the glide path was so sharp I could see the corn rows in the fields below. There was a SWA 7-3 easily within a mile and a half behind us as we fish tailed, it seemed, into runway alignment. Gears go down way late. We are going much faster than a normal approach. 2k now.... 1500, 1... touchdown... hard. Heavy brakes for a good bit then they release and we roll all the way down to the end and turn right toward the terminal. I look back down the runway and the SWA 7-3 is about 500yrds off the end of the runway. This would have been a "go around" under normal circumstances. Behind Southwest, they are stacked up on a string. 8-10 planes maybe... boom, boom, boom. Big ones too.
"Oh, my God! Oh, my God!" I hear a voice behind me. I turn, it's a man on his cell. 'Two planes hit the WTC. They are on fire...both buildings." We are in the terminal in a flash it seemed. I made a few calls and went to the rental counter and secured a car (a fire engine red, Dodge minivan) before I sat in this tiny airport and watch TV for about 4 hours. By the time I decided to go back to Chicago, the rental counters were chaos. I slowly made my way through the crowd announcing rides were available back to ORD for any takers, follow me out. Outside I turned around to see I had five takers, 2 men, 3 women. One was a UA FA. We barely spoke a word the whole way back. I don't even remember any of their names. ORD was closed and I dropped ‘em off one by one at various places around the city. Then home for me. I'll never forget where I was or that Ch. 9 was a part of it. I still have the stub from the flight. UA 1969, ORD to Phoenix, seat 5F.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/...
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/united-air...
I wonder how many of these pilots flew fighters or something for the Air Force before they took a job flying airliners.
I wonder how a fully automated system like we often think about would handle a situation like this.
Sometimes I put them on as working background audio, it’s tremendously soothing.
This quote from the article made me smile:
>> Another pilot chimed in: "Only in LA."
When the weather cleared, EVERYONE flew in. It was chaos.
I am unable to find the recording, but ATC was like "high wing, low wing, if you have a wing, turn left"
https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/910sge/the_adsb_at_...
Tune into LGA or JFK on any given Thursday; examples for miles
The SR71 radio speed check was in LA too.
I heard a Cessna ask for a readout of its ground speed.
'90 knots Center replied.
Moments later,a Twin Beech required the same.
'120 knots' Center answered.
We weren’t the only ones proud of our ground speed that day
as almost instantly an F-18 smugly transmitted:
'Ah, Center, Dusty 52 requests ground speed readout.'
There was a slight pause, then the response,
'620 knots on the ground, Dusty.'
As I was thinking to myself how ripe a situation this was,
I heard a familiar click of a radio transmission coming from my
back-seater. It was at that precise moment I realized Walt and I
had become a real crew, for we were both thinking in unison.
'Center, Aspen 20, you got a ground speed readout for us?'
There was a longer than normal pause
'Aspen, I show 1,942 knots.'
No further inquiries were heard on that frequency.
The SR71 requested flight level 800.
The ATC, thinking someone was joking, said, "If you can get up there, FL800 is yours."
The SR71 replied, "Maam, we're coming down to 800."
It was the first space disaster play out in real time over the internet. NASA streamed mission control communication on their site. We got everything unfiltered. The nation just lost a pride and joy, and mission control was incredibly calm and professional throughout. I was constantly hitting refresh on Slashdot, and then someone posted, "NASA just updated the mission status page to 'Lost'." It was just so weird looking at those words on screen.
I walked in and didn't believe people when they said what happened. (I had a similar reaction when my spouse woke me up at the crack of dawn by announcing "They knocked down the Towers!") Then the sub rolls in a TV cart. Oh.
The other thing that struck me was that nobody editorialized what they were seeing. I knew that the twin smoke trails spiraling off to the sites were the SRBs, three seconds into the video. There was nothing else they could possibly be. But the announcer was very clear to say they might be the SRBs but we don't know anything yet. As an adult having sat through many lower-stakes RCA and production outage situations, I can respect their reserve. As a child it just made me even more upset.
Once, flying from Western NY to Peoria Illinois, the tower came on to ask if he could find a pilot in the area, single engine, that was lost and in a slight panic. They new where he was, he had his transponder on, but were having difficulty getting him to follow directions. We were flying a light twin turboprop (Mitsubishi MU2-B) which can easily drop to low air speeds. We found the guy, and he followed off our left wing, so my father could keep an eye on him, and we took him to where he had clear visual of his destination airport. We then just continued on our way.
I had a headset on, and the flight controllers were so calm talking to that other pilot. It was like listening to Fred Rogers. I think my father only said a dozen words the whole time, acknowledging the request, declaring visual, and declaring visual on the airport.
We just continued our trip, but we did hear the other pilot declare base and final.
Someone please hurry up and make these sound bytes into an EDM song, thanks.
But it makes me wonder about helicopter pilots. Do they say left and right?
For example "traffic 3 o'clock" means there is someone on you right.
Port/starboard is not used in aviation and I don't know of any equivalent besides left/right.
Some things seem to have been carried over though - you still almost always board an aircraft from the port side, don't you?
And port/left is still a red light, and starboard/right is still a green light, on aircraft.
A good way to remember all this is 'port is red and is passed to the left'.
It seems less like a relic and more like applying an already found solution to the same problem.
Not sure why you are downvoted, it's the most relevant and humorous explanation of the calm, professional ATC "Houston Center" voice out there.
https://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/8x5ndw/til_wh...
How well do those show up on radar?
The newer type of radar for detecting debris exist at some airports but because of their main purpose is to monitor debris on the runaway it is only for short distance and not pointed to the sky.
With that being said, if it zipped by the plane very quickly, there's the possibility it was maybe a very large RC plane shaped like a guy in a jetpack, which I think could be a bit more plausible.
https://www.dw.com/en/the-dead-cat-drone-with-an-eco-message...
Seriously, try suspending yourself with your hands on two chair backs. Now imagine doing that for many minutes at a time, while also withstanding heavy vibration and precisely controlling your flight.
That video was one link down in the article, several other interesting concepts are shown, that generally seem to be platforms with thrusters.
I feel like a more practical design could be something a bit like "falcon" in the avengers: back-mounted thruster that gives a lot of forward thrust, with deployable delta wings à la jetman. Since the thrust is forward, you'd need something to right up for landing. Either with a physical movement, or aerobraking above the center of gravity (could be using the wing?).
For now, designs that only rely on thrust, and not lift, are probably doomed by their fuel efficiency and noise.
He is a former marine and I think one would need considerable strength to use his jetpack.
One very, very interesting project is Frank Zapata's Flyboard Air (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kB-BGMXxZc and https://www.zapata.com/). You basically stand on a hoverboard.
I wonder what these guys could accomplish if they partnered with, say, DJI or something. Their flight controllers are very small and have years of development in automatic flight stabilization. Anyone that has flown a DJI drone knows what I'm talking about. It would take balancing out of the equation and make these much more feasible for a general audience.
Holding yourself up like that is probably comparable in strength/endurance requirements to other sports like rock climbing, which still manage to be very popular. This design has a fitness prerequisite, which is okay. It's probably only the extreme sports crowd that would be interested anyway. If you want to fly, well... better start practicing those chair dips!
I do actually own a lens that could do it. Extended to full 500mm focal length and mounted on a camera body, the whole package is about three feet (0.9m) long. That's a lot to wrestle in economy class, especially if you're not in the window seat! Given advance knowledge of the opportunity, with time enough to prepare, it wouldn't be too hard a shot to get, I think. But taken totally by surprise? Even if you spot me the camera being out and ready to shoot - which is no triviality given that this happened on final - and the jetpack guy being perfectly visible out the passenger windows, I'd still need a very large helping of good fortune, not to mention a good deal of tolerance on the part of whoever is in the window seat.
> Pilot unions and other groups have long opposed cockpit video cameras, arguing that images or footage may be misused by accident investigators, prosecutors or news media.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/3845234/cockpit-video-...
Even if the camera was there, the image wouldn't be that interesting. You could capture the view of the runway approach... but other than that, there wouldn't ever be anything of interest on the camera. Anything weird would be tiny on the camera.
It is deceptive - we've got good eyes. I remember my grandmother identifying my grandfather at the other end of a very large parking lot by his particular shuffle. Our eyes can resolve two objects that are 30 cm apart at 1km away. Cameras are no where near this good when it comes to details (and those that are aren't taking pictures with something that has its imaging area measured in millimeters). We see at about 500 megapixels.
What good can bring one of the most wasteful ways of travel imaginable to be worthwhile? It is not cool to emit an anual carbon footprint equivalent of small city in the poor part of the world to take off. Hence it will be better to ban jetpacks for personal travel.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/4/20753648/jet-powered-hover...
At least mostly foam board.
We've had these consequences for some time, in other ways which really aren't that different. You can buy materiel on the open market and devices like drones without gps lockouts, or I guess flying suits.
El-Al has been flying at a higher risk profile than others for some time. So has cargo in the "stans" and the middle east and Africa. I'm not saying "shoot him down" is the best choice but there surely exist a range of choices here up to and including defensive action?
Commercial ships can request rights to armed force on deck in the pirate zones. Lethal force. We lock the guns up otherwise but the reasons the Gatling guns are fitted (if that's what they are) are understood. Aircraft can have anti missile systems. We've had that for years.
I think the ways we will deal with this will be broadly similar - perimeter defences, on aircraft detection systems, IFF and boots on the ground.
We probably don't have a systemic risk profile change here beyond the breakdown in the social contract: its funny to play but things work better when grown-ups don't do some things. Maybe 2nd amendment rights to a flying suit as a weapon is a thing?
WINGMAN FUNNY NOT FUNNY
Not sure they go high enough though.
The FAA should still have a stern talking to the guy, of course, if he flew in the path of airplanes.
Even if you want to do the 6' long at 900' (300 yards), that's only about 4/10ths of a degree across.
Those aren't things that are captured on camera well. These are angles that are similar to a 110' long airplane cruising at 38000' (that spec in the sky leaving a contrail).
it also happened in the evening if I'm not mistaken
Serious allegations if true!
There are flights, however, over land, but they usually involve a lot of practice and permitting.
- minor ed: addition
LOL
I suspect the Nomex pants might be on a par with that Bugatti. 2 hours per pair.
I cut my teeth in the old UseNet days. I have made a commitment to never go back to the way I was, back then.
Even if it was a donkey. It certainly won't be an inflatable 'guy in a jet pack'. I assume the other pilot heard the jet pack sighting which is why they said it.
But is it the most probable cause of the illusion?
The first one was hilarious, and I struggle to believe that was only in April.
Markets are rockin'
I think this year is worse than most.
For this one specifically, i don't really agree, because the index is positive year-to-date, sitting at the historical all-time high right now. Doesn't seem like a massive crash to me, given that it dipped not that badly in the first place and then almost instantly recovered.
Coming from someone who has used this against Clinton many times, having a congress with majority control by the opposition party pass articles of impeachment along party lines isn't really that big a deal.
> a global pandemic
The global campaign to make people aware of it would not have been as effective without modern information infrastructure. Think about Google, facebook, etc. and cell phones roles in that.
> the worst civil unrest in the US in 50 years
I'd like to see the data on that. Also, I feel it's over-hyped by our access to information. Anecdotally, I took a road trip up the west coast of the US a month or so ago. San Diego, LA, Santa Cruz, Portland, Seattle, fairly thoroughly exploring each city. Didn't see one protest. Not saying they're not happening, just saying a vast VAST majority of the population in these places are not protesting/rioting etc.
> massive wildfires all over California
we have these every year. Again, the VAST majority of Californians are not affected by them. But people that don't live here probably believe all their friends that live in California are affected because of the information provided. My GFs parents for example are very worried about us. We're like 100 miles away from them ...
> the most contentious presidential election
EVERY modern presidential election is, 'The Most Important, most contested, election of our lives!!!!'
Just think about the Trump admin. without Twitter.
It's like we're out of the 24 hour news cycle and into the hour-to-hour/minute-to-minute news cycle.
I mean... Something like the Beirut explosion only happens ever 3 or 4 years. Our current recession is a two or three times in a lifetime. Mass protests in large countries are some 1 in a decade event...
And, of course, the US, Russia and China trio threatening to end the world over the Mid-East and China sea happens a few times an year. It's just that they suddenly stopping because they have something more important to care about is a one in a century thing.
Or is it a different case?
Here he goes through why the glare rotates while the horizon does not (and recreates the phenomenon): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka_bX9Hx1H0
Here he highlights the relevant gimbal information on the Navy display that explains the "sudden" movements of the UFO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1di0XIa9RQ&t=251s
He's a retired developer who is now a science writer and skeptical investigator (just to give you an idea of where his expertise/bias may lie)
Seriously though, pissing off the FAA would be, I think, the last thing a board member of SpaceX would want to do.
"Look! Is it a stockbroker? Is it a quantity surveyor? Is it a church warden? NO! It's Bicycle Repair Man!"
edit: Nevermind, I thought the embedded youtube videos in the article was footage of the event described in the article. I didn't realize the video footage was a separate flight from 2015.
It's extremely unlikely that he'd be given permission to fly his jetpack in the approach to LAX, and even if he were, you can bet that air traffic control would be fully aware of it ahead of time.