Settlement in George Hotz Case
blog.us.playstation.com
blog.us.playstation.com
> What if SCEA tries to settle?
> Lets just say, I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It'd be good PR for Sony too, lord knows they could use it. I'm also willing to accept a trade, a legit path to homebrew for knowledge of how to stop new firmwares from being decrypted.
I wonder if any of those terms were met?
It's really unfortunate for everyone that it ended this way.
I'm sure his idealism faded sitting on the wrong side of a table of lawyers, though.
What part of it, exactly?
Hotz gets out of this with his fame and bank account intact, his hack is already out there, and Sony's still defending against a class-action lawsuit that has the potential to restore OtherOS functionality for everybody else and force Sony to pay damages. The only limitation on Hotz is that he can't do it again to the same company, but he probably won't need to since he's already got root for his PS3.
This settlement is a cease-fire that neither side will want to violate, and Sony didn't get any of what they wanted. (They didn't even make an example of Hotz to scare off other hackers!) It's definitely a win for Hotz, and it's not a loss for the rest of us.
They probably showed Hotz just how much he was about to get reamed and he folded. Not commenting on the legality or rightness of either side, just the fact that Sony probably has a lot more money and lot more lawyers dedicated to stuff like this.
In trying to establish personal jurisdiction, Sony got to dig up basically all the dirt on Hotz. Even though they claimed several times to have found a "smoking gun", they never did, and they could tell that they weren't going to in the full discovery process.
Neither side could risk a trial, because it would have been solely about nuanced interpretations of laws that weren't written with modern technology in mind. The outcome of a bench or jury trial would have been essentially random, and a long appeals process would have been necessary to truly settle things.
That doesn't make sense.
Please stop acting like this is a win for Hotz in any capacity. He got exactly zero of the things he wanted. Well, I guess he got one thing, Sony not breathing down his neck. But all of the conditions he placed on settlement (OtherOS, etc) were not met. But he settled anyway.
You only go to trial when you have nothing to lose. Both parties stood to lose in a trial regardless of the outcome. Sony would have maybe gotten what the settlement netted them minus the cost of the trial. Maybe less, maybe more. Maybe damages Hotz could never pay. They stood to lose in trial even if they won the verdict. Hotz was inconvenienced for a few months and probably can't even think about talking about the PS3 indefinitely. Trial could have essentially cost him his life. Trial costs and damages alone could have placed Hotz in a crippling financial situation.
My guess is that the settlement agreement is basically exactly what they said, that he'll stop distributing the code or any future modifications of that code. I'm sure Hotz lawyer came to realize that a protracted battle, even if he would win, would cost far more than Hotz would be able to pay.
The fact of the matter is that because they settled, that question will not be answered. It won't be, until someone stands their ground and forces the issue all the way to the Supreme Court.
EDIT: ah well, I see that this opinion is shared. It kind of cheers me up. Kind of.
Is this for real?
The moment I read the comments I was like, "this is so different from the view people have on HN". Also I am sure these are kids who just swear by their consoles. Sadly they are Sony's biggest chunk of consumers.
I thought that hackers and playstation 3 "owners" would be on the same side, given that the ultimate question here is whether they really own the console or not.
It also depends on what motivations you assign to geohot. I wouldn't have much sympathy for him if I thought his intention was to pirate video games.
Which isn't to say that Sony has handled this well: they're still incompetent and Evil.
I can see how people might worry that if using PS3s for non-gaming becomes widespread, Sony might feel the need to raise the price to make up for the loss.
Apparently, Anonymous took down the PSN for some time in protest to the litigation. I'm sure that galvanized the viewpoint of some Playstation users who may not have even been aware of the bigger picture.
Don't get me wrong, jailbreaking certainly opens up other avenues, but Sony (and developers) had been doing a very poor job of anti-cheat for a long time. With the jailbreak, they simply found a scapegoat that they hoped would take the heat off of them.
Those praising the actions of Sony don't seem to understand any of the larger issues here. It doesn't matter to them that free inquiry is being destroyed in order to shield the embarrassing secrets of a huge corporation from public view, as long as they can boot up their game console and play their shiny new video game without any inconvenience.
Interesting to see, however, that the side people take is an efficient indicator of their intelligence level - not as in IQ, but as in CIA (on its better days).
Someone who trots out such hackneyed clichés should be careful criticising others for following the crowd.
It is also not generally a good idea to attack others for following the crowd, as we all do it. Those who consider themselves contrarian are typically simply choosing to highlight the areas where they reject society, while ignoring the myriad ways in which they toe the line every day. People who really do question all of society's assumptions get locked away in mental hospitals.
Also, we all follow what others tell us because it would be impossible not to. To do otherwise would require independently researching and validating each and every position one holds, and there simply isn't enough time in the day.
If you really questioned everything, you would achieve nothing.
Poor souls. I always knew video games would destroy the mind and the ability to appreciate the finer things in life.
The scary part is that these are most likely real people, who like their control and surveillance just fine, and are the majority. Which means we will probably see a completely locked down internet sooner or later.
It's basically a microcosm of partisan politics. Don't worry too much about it.
EDIT: Alternatively they could be very lazy astroturfers.
EDIT2: The comparison of console wars to partisan politics has raised another question that I've never considered before: what will happen in a few decades time when the children of people who have themselves been gaming since childhood reach their teen years? Will we see similar patterns to politics, where children tend to inherit their views from their parents without question? Will parents war with their children over their opposing views on gaming?
"This family has played nintendo for four generations! I'll be damned if any son of mine is going to play an xbox 1080 under my roof!"
Normal, non-religiously-devoted gamers don't post there either, they inhabit more independent fora. The only people posting there are sony fanboys.
However, while politics remains a defining factor in peoples views of themselves well into adulthood and parenthood, console/OS choice does not.
Those people for whom it does are probably less likely to breed so the effect will likely not be measurable.
One of the ways that freedom to contract is limited is that contracts should not contravene public policy. In general, legal settlement, as opposed to going all the way through trial, is considered to be a good thing.
The parties reached an agreement they could accept with and the public did not have to use up scare resources of judicial time. Also, the public did not have to force an outcome on one of the parties.
http://psx-scene.com/forums/f6/settlement-george-hotz-case-8...
Note that this does not include the confidential memorandum of understanding (page 1, line 20), which would contain the meat of what was actually agreed to by both parties.
"We'll see you in court." "Shit."
Time passes...
"Hey Sony, here's a ton of money, leave me alone." "Ok."
I cannot express how disappointed I am in this result.
likely because they realized they were being dipshits half way through. glad this case is over and i can't believe it wasted so much time. my respect and empathy goes to hotz; i'm sure his past few months were miserable.
Having been in similar situations in court facing virtually unlimited legal budgets and opposing counsel focused on PR victories I can understand why geohotz settled, however, the wording of the statement tells me that the permanent injunction agreed to actually doesn't prevent much otherwise it would be more heavily touted.
I have a feeling this statement "a preliminary injunction was issued requiring Hotz to take down the postings challenged by SCEA." reveals that the injunction was to permanently remove the postings. (eg. Hotz won!)
... Which is under seal, and will only ever be seen by the parties in the case, the Court clerk, and the Judge.
What do you base that on, community support? Some initial faintly favourable legal maneuvers? A specific turn of phrase in a legal book would have decided this in the end. And then been appealed, multiple times.
It's too bad we don't know all the terms.
Yeah, right. I just hope that any manufacturers of the stuff I own will refrain from "protecting" me in a similar way.
19 On March 31,2011, Hotz met with SCEA representatives and the Parties entered
20 a confidential Memorandum of Understanding, agreeing to settle the dispute between
21 them.
But maybe he promised not to settle in soliciting donations, all I see is a blog post saying here is a legal defense fund. And even if he said he would demand certain things, the fact remains that he was defending himself and has to make the right call.
In another context, GeoHot saying "Together, we ..." is much like his saying "if you want your console to be secure get in touch with me, any of you 3", and SCEA interpreting that as extorsion. If anything, it goes to prove that GeoHot is not an English major and has difficulty being succinct and direct in writing. Assuming that he actually is going to band the community together to "stick it to the man" is fairly naive. He was the one being sued, and his number one priority was to stay out of jail and not get his paycheck garnished for the next 65 years.
Very interesting, I didn't know this was possible. Are there any cases when people did this that I can read about? Thanks!
(not intended to insult or anything, I'm part of the naive populous, but this seems to happen constantly)