Even my craptastic company gives me a bunch of devices to test on. And I very deliberately specify very low-end versions of the machines so that I can test against worst-case-scenarios. It's a bonus that sub-optimal hardware is cheap as chips.
My favorite testing device is a $20 burner phone I picked up in the supermarket checkout aisle. If the web site works on that piece of poo, it'll work on anything.
Right now I'm waiting for UPS to deliver an old iPad from Alaska that the IT department bought for me off of fleaBay, just so that I can test on sub-optimal actual hardware.
Ths context is that testing is a solved problem. You are taking specific factual examples I wrote and attempting to debunk them with a general statement that is in agreement with what I wrote. Testing scrollbards can absolutely be tested inside a VM. Pretending that native hardware is needed to cover 99% of the use-cases for scrollbars is kind of silly.
> Even my craptastic company gives me a bunch of devices to test on. And I very deliberately specify very low-end versions of the machines so that I can test against worst-case-scenarios. It's a bonus that sub-optimal hardware is cheap as chips.
You've made my point. This is a solved problem.
The only problem that is solved is running multiple browsers in VMs in a cloud. Everything else is anyone's guess.
To come up with an automated test for the problem in the OP you have to be a) aware of the problem and b) have a way to test that scrollbars do/don't appear. Good luck with that.
That false hyperbole. Just because you do not know something, that doesn't mean that nobody else does.
> To come up with an automated test for the problem in the OP you have to be a) aware of the problem and b) have a way to test that scrollbars do/don't appear. Good luck with that.
No luck is needed, just tests. You may not realize, but test frameworks already exist for testing the screen for the presence of UI elements. That is how dialog boxes are clicked in tests. This is literally solved.
For the third time you've failed to show how to test for the problem described in OP. It tells me that you don't know
> test frameworks already exist for testing the screen for the presence of UI elements
Which ones test for the presence/absence of scrollbars?
I see our testers doing this all the time - but I don't know what libraries they use. I know the testers at our shop do it with an house built framework as well as with commercial ones. On our company's security team, various people have scripted UI exploits using selenium or appium. I just asked one of the people familiar with those two tools I mentioned, and she said it would take her a few minutes.
These are commodity tools. There is nothing special with any of them.
It would'be been so easy to just answer the question I asked. Instead, it's now a thread of non-answers and thinly veiled ad-hominem attacks.
The rest of your long answer is once again working hard on avoiding the answer.
> I find it hard to believe that you think there aren't any.
I didn't say there weren't any. I asked, "which ones let you test the problem in OP".
> I see our testers doing this all the time - but I don't know what libraries they use
Ah, my assumption that you don't know what you're talking about is proven correct.
> On our company's security team, various people have scripted UI exploits using selenium or appium
Question: scrollbars.
"Answers": tools click on buttons, scripting security exploits, I don't know what libraries testers are using.
Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?
> and she said it would take her a few minutes.
Given your answers in this thread, I seriously doubt your ability to ask a proper question to "the people familiar with the tools". Especially given the fact that you don't know what libraries testers use and that you, apparently, don't do any testing yourself.
See, frontend testing is very far from being "a solved problem". Especially for quirks as described in OP. But you wouldn't know because you, well, don't know.
> These are commodity tools. There is nothing special with any of them.
Indeed they are. Indeed there is nothing special. And this still doesn't answer the question.
You used a lot of words to make it seem otherwise. As you yourself wrote, "Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?"
You din't, really. On the third attempt you said "I see our testers doing this all the time - but I don't know what libraries they use" and "various people have scripted UI exploits using selenium or appium. I just asked one of the people familiar with those two tools"
This shows that you started this entire argument with very bad faith. You berated me for not knowing something while you yourself:
- don't do frontend testing using frontend testing tools
- you don't know what tools your testers use
- you assume some capability of some tools only because "you talked to people familiar with them" which further shows that you yourself are not familiar with them.
On the other hand, unlike you, I know what I'm talking about. Granted, I haven't used these tools extensively, but I did use them, and I'm well aware of their limitations.
All you have is, well, empty words.
> You din't, really. On the third attempt you said "I see our testers doing this all the time - but I don't know what libraries they use" and "various people have scripted UI exploits using selenium or appium. I just asked one of the people familiar with those two tools"
Because I see this sort of test being done almost daily... I work in security and not specifically in testing. I mentioned what frameworks are used in a security context. You are beating a dead horse, focusing on what doesn't matter. I suggest you get off hacker news, go educate yourself, and stop pontificating.
When I said that I "just asked" I meant that I just now asked, not that just asking was all I have ever done. You're being foolish, projecting in every comment that you know more than everyone else.
PS. Please quote properly. I wrote that the security team uses selenium and appium not whatever it is that you are pretending I wrote.
Good luck with your holier than though attitude, and god help your security.
I did not need to ask other people how to solve a problem. That is a silly interpretation of what I wrote. You are willfully pretending ignorance of how to read and have a conversation.
Pontificate: "express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic." Yes, you really do need to stop pontificating.
I hope you find happiness.
Testing platforms like SauceLabs, Browserstack etc run on real hardware, even for mobile.
Testing with your own devices is of course better, but a lot more work. Which one you choose doesn't really matter, the point is just that you don't _need_ to have all those resources to do basic compatibility testing, so no excuses.
You can keep using all the words and comments that you want, but the simple truth is that this is a solved problem, I gave you two solutions, and yet you keep using ad hominem attacks.
As you yourself wrote, "Ignorance is bliss". Those are your words, not mine.