Hacker News Reader

Comment by willio58 | Hacker News Reader

I've always heard mixed feelings about Tony. I wonder if there are any HNers who have a perspective they'd like to share.

View on HN

I interviewed there in 2007, and I got about 45 minutes with him. He's definitely really smart, and seems honest...but has some ideas that are pretty polarizing. It was clear to me in the first 5 minutes that I wouldn't fit in.

Over the rest of the interview with various folks there was a distinct split of believers and "yeah this place is weird, but I can't leave just yet" groups. Pretty clearly it works though.

Edit: One example. It's minor, but indicative of the weirdness. As a "visitor/interviewee", I was obligated to carry around a 6 foot flagpole with a sizable Zappos flag on it for the several hours I was there. Not a deal breaker by itself, but odd enough I knew the place wasn't for me, because there was probably more of the same coming. Maybe it was some kind of test?

That sounds entertaining TBH. Worked at a place a bit like that; could have been a test but as simple as seeing how you dealt with random fun.

I spoke with Hsieh briefly after his talk at Draper University in 2015.[1] I was in Boost Accelerator for Gliph and our group got to sit in on some but not all of the guest lectures that season. (Elon also spoke, but we did not get to attend that one)

Before Tony gave the above speech, Tim introduced Hsieh and his relationship in investing in Zappos.

I may not have this quite right but I believe Tim talked about a time where either Hsieh needed bridge money and either Tim's fund or DFJ had to make a call on whether to bail out Zappos.

IIRC, Tim or the fund he was managing chose not to bail out Hsieh.

It may have been because of the 2000 crash, I can not remember. But Tim was very open about this decision and I believe the choice Tim made was not good for Tony at the time. I can’t say for sure, but I recall Tim saying it hurt their relationship.

He told this story standing right next to Hsieh.

I'm not sure exactly how but they worked it out, not only because Hsieh pulled through and raised capital elsewhere, but because he was there to give that talk in person. The relationship was clearly in good shape.

Wish I could remember more details. I'll try to get them if the opportunity presents itself.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJP_EbqQ-XA

I know him a little. He's as-expected based on all the writings on him, as most people will tell you. He's weird. Works his ass off. "Good" to his employees if you're into the cult-ish like environment he's about.

Completely tanked DT Las Vegas project, but that was easy to call. Way out of his skillset.

A pretty good guy I think. Always followed through with promises to the best of his abilities, never did me wrong. Just a weirdo. Which ain't so bad.

What's weird about being kind and considerate?

That's not why he's weird. It's how he goes about it. I like Tony. And I don't personally think he's weird. But objectively... most people probably do and I understand why.

Worked at Zappos for a couple years. Worked closely with the incoming CEO Kedar. I might even say, I had a small role in his early rise.

I don’t have a lot to share, and out of respect for folks privacy. I won’t share much. I will say this. Their customer service isn’t a lie and it’s good inside and out. But much of their culture is PR. Internally it’s far more toxic than you see on the exterior. It is cult like.

I think Kedar is a solid person, and while him and I have our differences. I think he’ll make a great CEO and has the qualities needed. While his approach may be different than Tony’s approach. I don’t think it will be lesser, if that makes sense.

he's a good guy

built a good company

AMAZING service

Amazon tends to buy up all the companies that could become a threat to them, and then slowly kills them off (Zappos, Quidsi/Diapers.com, etc)

What Tony could have and should have done is

get someone like Marc Lore and have him expand Zappos to the EVERYTHING store

Zappos customer loyalty was insanely high

No personal direct experience - I like that he was an experimenter. Great experimenters have lots of failures to go along with their successes. He made a great company in a way that went against the grain, and survived an acquisition from a buyer with a very strong culture.

No personal experience here, either, but word on the street last year was that he was widely disliked outside of Zappos.

When I lived in Nevada, he was heralded as the future savior of downtown Las Vegas, having bought up a bunch of dead motels and vacant lots to transform into something new and better. Plenty of "tech disruptor" headlines in the newspapers.

After a few years, when virtually nothing came of it other than a quirky-but-empty strip mall and a clubhouse for his hangers-on to gather in, there started appearing articles about people being unhappy with how things were going, and him in particular.

Never heard about any strife from inside Zappos, though.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/hsieh-lands-in-court-...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/nightclu...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/downtown-project-lays...

I am leery of any company that comes off with culty-vibes and that was the impression I got from various media I read and watched about it. I’m sure it’s great for business but not for me, I am free thinker. Same reason I think Ray Dalio / Bridgewater is an insane asylum. I briefly worked with someone who did a stint there and he embraced the principles / radical transparency thing and it made him extremely hard (even obnoxious) to deal with.

the radical transparency thing is very interesting

When you embrace it, you will definitely piss off a LOT of people

society is all about 'being polite' and 'wearing a mask'

if you stop being polite and stop wearing masks, while still maintaining common courtesy

life becomes MUCH easier

I'll give you an example

2 of your friends have problems which prevent them from having a good relationship

you have a frank talk with them

Hey, Jack, you need to get over your abandonment issues and commit to a woman and marry her. You've passed on some pretty amazing women just because your father walked away when you were 4

Hi Sophie, perhaps the reason you only date losers is that is your type. Perhaps your type is guys who will cheat on you. Perhaps when your mother divorced your father after he cheated on her with her sister, his secretary, and the school principal, you should have realized that's genetically your type. So you can either accept that you are making this choice and be at peace with it, or you CHANGE your decision making process

guess what's going to happen

usually, 1 of them will get mad at you, then realize you are right, and then make a change, and then your friendship will be much stronger

and the other will hate you for life. Well not hate you. Will avoid you forever

So that's what radical honesty and radical transparency does

of course you have to be prepared for people to also be radically honest with you

you find out things that are painful. Then you have to decide whether you will embrace the honest feedback you are getting or run away from it

Yeah, that's not how it is used though. It is an alternate system of control with its own set of rules. It is creepy and dishonest to its core even if it works at the top, it certainly does not carry all the way down.

Here's another problem with radical honesty: You think you're right, and say something that's going to be a painful but beneficial truth. But you might simply be wrong: you don't have all the facts, you're missing some context, your interpretation is hampered by your own issues, whatever. Now you've caused someone pain and haven't helped them, and maybe further contributed to their problems.

Radical honesty works great with I-statements (e.g., "I stopped listening to you a couple minutes ago because you're boring me") in terms of communicating effectively without the baggage of courtesy. But radical honesty for criticism rarely works as well as propenents think.

Plus one on bridgewater

You can't be an island of radical transparency. It has to be an organizational thing, and even then you'd be well advised to not act that way with your spouse or at a retail store.

We share a mutual friend. Got a private tour of Zappos after they moved to Vegas.

Seems like a good guy. The office experience is very unique.

He also has a comic book: https://www.amazon.com/Delivering-Happiness-Profits-Passion-...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com