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Comment by belorn | Hacker News Reader

If this practice ever get wide spread I would guess that the developers will limit airplane mode in someway in order to ensure that the device will call home at some point.

But it is a pretty clever hack to get a hostile machine to not connect to the internet as airplane mode is (I assume) regulated behavior.

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Even if the developers take the egregious step of nerfing airplane mode, you can still "opt out" by not giving the device credentials for your WiFi network.

Only a matter of time before devices come with 5G data connections...

...which would require a valid SIM. So just don't add one. If the device comes with a pre-inserted/hardwired/virtual SIM, well... several countries in the world require KYC-style registration of the SIM owner before networks are allowed to activate the SIM, so there'd still be an opt-out path for the user in such countries.

eta: My point being: Now you're in a twisty little maze full of corner cases, all different. Not the sort of thing much loved by Amazon (or any of the GRAFT).

Does this work with Teslas?

FWIW, the original kindle used a cellular connection to do position syncing and book downloading. No user-provided SIM needed.

Not in the IoT world. The 'owner' of the Sim, the company that sells the device, would have a deal with one or more network providers to allow access, and take care of facilitating data retention and identification regulation.

AKA, the original whispersync.

Yup, this was once a thing - you didn't need wifi for sync or downloading books at all.

Kindles at one point apparently came with free cellular access

https://xkcd.com/548/

I had a kindle keyboard and it had 3g. It worked in a bunch of countries--slowly though. I remember reading blogs where people were taking the sim cards out and tethering using them.

They still do - it's an option on more expensive devices (Paperwhite and Oasis).

To save money they could come with LoRA radios and sync when the opportunity arrises to a LoRA gateway, including meshing with each other to aggregate data to increase the likeliness of encountering a gateway. LoRA modules are pretty cheap.

https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/

Only until you come into range of any open WiFi which is every public place everywhere

Is that Kindle that promiscuous that it will literally connect to any open AP without prompting?

Here on hn, I read several stories where smart TVs did exactly that: they tried all available wifi networks to see if one of them worked.

It doesn't seem so far-fetched that the Kindle might, too.

Sure, but I'm looking for an answer and not idle speculation.

As of my current device (the Oasis), no, it does not appear to be this promiscuous. I can't speak to the analytics, but the whispersync and book downloading doesn't work unless you explicitly connect it to an AP.

Parent comment was

> if the developers take the egregious step of nerfing airplane mode,

and I was responding that IF the developers decide to nerf the airplane mode it's very possible they will start using any open AP; some TV's are reportedly doing this already

Ok so you don't know, you're just speculating without evidence.

No, the entire scenario is a hypothetical, the standard of evidence is inapplicable.

I don't understand the point then.

Literally any device you own with WiFi could be updated tomorrow to connect to any open access point.

I don't think they can - if they do this, Kindle would not be allowed in airplane cabin.

You're allowed to use WiFi on planes (other than take-off and landing, currently) and Aeroplane Mode often allows WiFi and Bluetooth these days. The rules are changing pretty fast.

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