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Comment by calinet6 | Hacker News Reader

I would bet it’s tied to the neglect of work in both real wages and respect for workers.

We no longer take pride in work. We pay people less and make them compete for the mere privilege of holding a job. Then, we tell them what to do, disrespecting their intelligence and autonomy and ability to make something they can be proud of. For the brilliance of this strategy, we pay leaders ten times more than we did before, and even more when they fail and need to be replaced—surely installing a new CEO is the answer.

It is no surprise at all.

Deming tried to lay it out for us, but no one really listened.

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It's entirely possible that you are right except for construction and civil project jobs.

I've built several large-scale buildings and developments at urban scale in California and Nevada, both heavy heavy union states.

I can't point to the systemic problem leading to the delays but I can tell you that any job even tangentially related to construction requires high wage labor. This is universally true for civic projects.

Some of those unions (e.g. electrical workers, carpenters) provide exceptional training services for apprentices. Others (e.g. the people holding the stop signs at highway construction sites) are mostly strong-arm groups.

These groups could be causing delays and from personal experience I can tell you they do, sometimes. But overall I can certainly say that the point you made here is not the reason why projects are delayed.

It's entirely possible that you are right except for construction and civil project jobs.

It's all very well to pay someone well and expect good results for the money, but that person is still a member of society and will be affected by the things around them. I'd argue that someone who hears constant negativity in the media about how everyone is underpaid and living in poverty, and sees the person serving their coffee at a diner working their third job, and knows that their wife is working longer hours than they are for much less money, is going to be less productive as a result no matter how they're treated as an individual. Poverty is a structural problem in society. It doesn't just affect poor people.

The Golden Gate Bridge was built during the Great Depression.

Poverty may have been prevalent.

The Golden Gate bridge was one of many public works that arose from the government trying to spend its way out of the depression through the creation of jobs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration

Oh, I'm not disputing that at all. Just that the bridge's enduring quality (much as with other Deoression-era / WPA works) is at odds with your observation on poverty. Though that does seem to have some validity otherwise.

Maybe focus more on inequality and uneven reward? The Depression seems to have often been, as with the WWII recovery, something of a leveller.

The issue might actually be the opposite. It would probably cost too much to employ the number of bridgeworkers that were employed for the Golden Gate Bridge.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol's_cost_disease

This can’t be a complete explanation though as other places can still build things.

> It is no surprise at all.

I'm totally nitpicking on your style here, but IMO this line reduces the value of the rest of your comment. Without it, your comment could be interpreted as a call to action, eg to encourage people to take more pride in their work. With it, it's clear that you've already given up, and you're not really adding anything except maybe encouraging others to give up on stuff too. That makes me sad.

> We pay people less and make them compete for the mere privilege of holding a job. Then, we tell them what to do, disrespecting their intelligence and autonomy and ability to make something they can be proud of.

This fully embodies the experience of the modern-day Agile experience in software development. "I know you're a senior but I (a non-technical Product Manager/Scrum Master) am going to have to check in multiple times a day and dictate every single feature and how it's built."

And we let more politicians have a hand at bikeshedding the project (to their interests, of course)

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