Epic is actively suing Google for using anti-competitive practices to force phone makers not to include 3rd-party app stores on their phones[0].
One example they bring up:
> Epic struck a deal with OnePlus to make Epic games available on its phones through an Epic Games app. The Epic Games app would have allowed users to seamlessly install and update Epic games, including Fortnite, without obstacles imposed by Google’s Android OS. But Google forced OnePlus to renege on the deal, citing Google’s “particular[] concern” about Epic having the ability to install and update mobile games while “bypassing the Google Play Store”.
If you want to show that sideloading doesn't make a difference for storefront fees, you should pick a company not currently being sued for antitrust to demonstrate it.
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> You have a choice of three consoles - why aren’t developers side loading there?
You can't sideload on a console, I don't know what you're getting at.
In regards to price fixing on consoles: you're right, the console situation is also bad. We effectively have only 3 major consoles, and a reasonably high barrier of entry into the space for similar reasons as mobile phones. Of course, the console space is better (in no small part because the PC market exists), and console manufacturers do compete more for developers than Apple and Google do. But it's not perfect, and as a result, you still see some issues around competition.
It took direct action from developers like Epic to even force the issue on cross-play, which is a decent sign that console manufactures really didn't feel like they needed to compete with each other in that area.
However, it is generally ill-advised to sue every single major games distributor at the same time, so it is perfectly reasonable for Epic to target what they see as the biggest problem-areas first.
The whataboutism doesn't really work here. Yes, console sideloading would probably be good for the market, it's just not as big and immediate of a problem as Apple is -- in part because more people own iPhones than an Xbox, in part because the barriers of entry to console competition are slightly lower, and in part because the PC games market provides somewhat of an escape hatch for console games, and that escape hatch isn't applicable to the mobile app market.
[0]: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/21759099/f...
Epic is the problem in the case of Fortnite. They are no more ethical than the Candy Crush, Farmville’s of the world.
What happen to HN users who love Big Government wanting fo go after all of the “game” companies who were milking consumers selling loot boxes and virtual currency?
and that escape hatch isn't applicable to the mobile app market.
That escape hatch is called Android.
But it isn’t like we are talking about great innovative games for the most part on mobile. Mobile is mostly made up of pay to win games and “whales” buying virtual currency for dance moves. If the entire play to win games completely disappeared nothing of value would be loss.
If Apple made a rule banning in app purchases for games or at least banning consumables, it would be a better experience for customers. The entire pay to win mobile game ecosystem is a bigger stain on the iPhone than in app purchases.
I have sympathy for the Basecamp’s of the world. The Epics, not so much.
It’s strange
HN: We want government to be more involved in tech.
Government: okay let’s pass laws against net neutrality, against strong encryption, the DMCA, COPPA and force the sell of TikTok and the governmebt should get a cut.
HN: oh no. The government abuses power and doesn’t understand tech. But the government will get it right next time.
Did you watch the hearings of the four CEOs? The same hearing where the biggest concern on one side was that tech was being mean to conservatives and grilled Zuckerberg about Twitter’s treatment of Don Jr.? Is this the government you trust to regulate tech and not do more harm than good?
No one has been able to rise to the challenge - name one good law that the US government has passed in the last 40 years with regard to tech - either Democratic or Republican.
This is a weird take. Do you think net neutrality isn't a government regulation?
How can anyone look at the early Bell systems regulations, telephone breakups, forced network compatibility with 3rd-party answering phones and network devices and think, "now that's a market that thrived without the government?"
The entire history of the Internet and the tech industry, from regulations around smart-phone unlocking and number porting, to net neutrality itself is a giant example of how forcing the market to be competitive against its will is sometimes really good for both consumers and for innovation.
Currently being sued for antitrust.
> But it isn’t like we are talking about great innovative games for the most part on mobile. Mobile is mostly made up of pay to win games and “whales” buying virtual currency for dance moves.
It's almost like giving two companies a stranglehold over the entire mobile market means that only certain types of games can thrive, and that by and large more serious developers will be forced to abandon mobile games entirely.
You could almost imagine that in a world where quality games weren't constantly crowded out of the ecosystem, and where developers were free to be more creative, and where serious games could sell on serious storefronts that didn't force them to advertise right next to Candy Crush, that we'd have better games and less of a race to the bottom on price and ethics.
I'm having a really hard time reconciling, "Apple is great at managing an app store", with "everything on the app store is trash."
> I have sympathy for the Basecamp’s of the world. The Epics, not so much.
You shouldn't be deciding your legal principles based on whether or not you personally like the people involved.
This came up with Google vs Oracle as well. I don't really like Google as a company; that doesn't mean I wanted Oracle to win. I was able to look past my feelings, look at what the overall threat was to the entire industry, and treat the law as more than a popularity contest.
I really don't care whether or not people like Epic, it's not relevant to the conversation.