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Comment by baddox | Hacker News Reader

> First the interviewer went off on a tangent claiming that they’re not evil (unsolicited)

They're a big data company that works mostly with governments and militaries, and they're named after evil (and unreliable!) magical spying technology from The Lord of the Rings. It's clear why they feel the need to try to convince you that they're not evil.

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If you are evil and proud it makes sense to name yourself after evil. It is a waste of everyone's time to try to recruit non-evil people. Given that this headline is the only example of evil failing that I have seen in recent times, they should probably assume the problem is salary, intelligent evil people are clearly the most occupied and must be very expensive. Taking short cuts with either stupid or ethical people is never going to work for them.

The palintiri weren't evil. They were created by the Noldor (elves) not Melkor or Sauron -- perhaps even by Feanor, who also created the beautiful gems known as the Silmarils. This was in Aman before the elves fell. They were given to the Numenoreans (men from which Aragorn came), and brought by Elendil into Middle Earth. Also called "seeing stones", the palintiri were used to observe and communicate over long distances. They were not used for evil purposes until Sauron captured one, and also when used by those he corrupted. Gandalf even said that it was beyond the power of Sauron to create a palintir, nor could he make them lie or show false images (though he could show select ones, and so deceive). So a stone that can tell only the truth can't be evil, although some beings that used them were.

Thanks for the explanation! I've been rereading the LOTR series over COVID shelter in place and it's been so enjoyable taking me back remembering what a great story it is and experiencing it again! I ended up ordering the LOTR ATLAS with maps drawn by Tolkein's son which looks exciting to explore. Dunno if I have the mental fortitude to tackle the Silmarilion though!

>If you are evil and proud it makes sense to name yourself after evil. It is a waste of everyone's time to try to recruit non-evil people.

Exactly. Interviewed there, got the same bullshit vibe.

Like, I'm here to find out just how tasty the cookies are on the dark side, you don't need to convince me you are, quote, "saving the world".

>Taking short cuts with either stupid or ethical people is never going to work for them.

I think they are going for smart, non-ethical, but obedient enough people. Drinking the doublespeak kool-aid probably is a good enough indicator for that.

Palintir's weren't evil spying tech. They were originally Zoom for coordinating the far flung domains of the Numenoreans. Only when the Minas Morgul palintir fell into the hands of Sauron did they become instruments of his corruption.

Ironically, all these Chinese based SaaS seem to go quite along the lines of the LoTR story (Zoom, Tik-Tok).

> Only when the Minas Morgul palintir fell into the hands of Sauron did they become instruments of his corruption

Only when Trump got on Twitter...

Keep in mind that the Numenorians were a cautionary tale of human pride, hubris and abuse of magical trinkets [1], that eventually led them to declare war on the gods, and try to invade Valinor.

They then got Atlantis'd.

There's a few recurring themes in Tolkien's work - one of them is that marvelous inventions, created by clever people for good purposes, can either be turned to do evil - or the struggle to possess them will turn good people to do evil.

[1] In contrast to the rest of the Silmarillion, which was a cautionary tale of elven pride, hubris, and abuse/attachment to magical trinkets.

That is a very astute observation! I seem to remember Tolkien himself explaining that The Silmarillion was from an elvish view, the middle tale of The Hobbit was a virtually human view, and The Lord of the Rings blends them. I think he meant in tone and style, but the subject material aligns with your view as well. To my mind, the Numenorean legends in Unfinished Tales seem closer to The Silmarillion than either of his other two main published works.

Yep. As others point out, the evil came later. But I spent enough time in Middle Earth to know not to trust anything named Palantir as soon as I heard about them. If they knew enough to lift the name, but not enough to understand what it signified, I didn't trust their research skills from the start.

I thought it was a great name. As a kid, reading the books, I thought palantiri would be cool to have to be able to scry anything and anywhere. All that cool info to observe and learn.

It seems like lots of people incorrectly assume it’s negative. It seems to show off a lacking in understanding of lord of the rings, more than anything.

Kind of like CCTV - can be great to help prevent crime, an invasion of privacy if abused or in the wrong hands. Not necessarily evil, depends on the user.

I loved that part of it too. I just always took there to be a cautionary tale about the consequences of that power.

I would have thought "call yourself something less obviously evil" would be a good start. Though maybe it's a case of one set of marketing for employees and another for customers; I'm sure some governments quite like the evil aesthetics.

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