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Comment by byoung2 | Hacker News Reader

Check out http://www.glassdoor.com. They have anonymous salaries from current and former employees, along with actual interview questions and reviews. Look up the company name there and see what it says. For example, I looked up DreamWorks in Los Angeles, and there are 10 salaries listed for software engineer, with a range from $74k-$98k. There are 3 salaries listed for senior software engineer with a range from $98k-113k. That is valuable info when negotiating salary, and you get an idea of advancement potential

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I had a negotiation completely implode using glassdoor and payscale along with "insider" info on salaries at a company.

But I had naively given a complete salary history when asked early in the process. Since I was currently working for less than I had earned in years (academic/research job), it turned out that their expectation was that I would leave for 3% to 5% over my current base.

They were pretty perplexed when I refused to consider anything less than my previous industry base (which was below an offer I had in hand from other sources and slightly below market rates in my area).

I had the same problem. I work for a public university and gave out my salary in an after-interview meeting with a company's HR rep. She said my asking salary was obviously too high based on my current salary. They wouldn't offer me more than +5% because otherwise that would just be an unreasonable jump in pay. She felt so sure her logic would convince me it was a reasonable offer. I shrugged her off and said I wouldn't take the job.

I ended up getting offered 33% above my current, but turned the job down as I felt that HR conversation was a one of many symptoms of a dysfunctional company. (Print media trying to convert to web based income, but already abusing their Dev team as if they were a cost sink before the digital products even launched).

Good move.

When a company gives a low-ball offer to a potential developer then counters with a more realistic offer, this raises a big red flag to question the company's intentions and morals .

Just curious, why would you tell them your current salary? In salary negotiations, wouldn't that give the employer a substantial advantage in bargaining?

I've been asked this before in post-interview negotiation, so evidently this is somewhat common practice. I always respond with, "I'll tell you that if you give me a salary breakdown of your engineering positions by experience level." They always back off at that point.

My salary is public information and easily discoverable. I'd rather be the source of the information than let a nosy HR rep base an offer on my current salary on the sly. It's not information I can keep secret.

I know what salary I want, so it's not like it matters anyway. Plus their low-ball offer gave me an insight into how they value their development team. If they didn't think I was worth what I was asking, fine, don't hire me. But if they're just looking for budget coders I'm happy to stay where I am. They already had two outsourced coders. The idea of joining their staff knowing they undervalue talent and are willing to hire from the 3rd world to replace me was not tempting.

Likewise on references, oh you want references? Give me some references for your previous employees.

But I had naively given a complete salary history when asked early in the process

I think that was the mistake...it's never a bad idea to have more information when going into the negotiation. By giving them the salary history, you gave them more information, and they didn't give you the same courtesy. Why should you provide a salary history if the company doesn't have to. With sites like GlassDoor, now they do, even if it's without their knowledge.

By using online salary info and not revealing my own salary history I have managed to get an average 20% increase over my previous job for the last 3 job changes, even during the economic downturn.

There's no reason your salary at a previous, unaffiliated organization should have an affect on your next salary. Hiring managers would like you to believe so, just so they can peg their offer to that number. If that happens, be sure to politely remind them that your previous salary was based on the completely unrelated finances, managers, timing, and circumstances at a different company -- and that you're interested in working for the new company because, among other reasons, you believe they'll make you an offer that reflects fair market rate for your schools and expected contribution to their company.

Good call. See also:

http://www.indeed.com/salary

http://www.payscale.com/

Most importantly, look for evidence. Don't trust unsupported numbers from people you've never met.

I wonder though. How good is indeed's data?

I ran a query for "PHP developer" and got an average salary of $72k - check the standard deviation of about $7k. Is my salary really almost two standard deviations below the mean for Toronto?

That's embarrassing more than anything else. I find myself wishing I had a post anonymously option on HackerNews.

You do. Just create a new throwaway account.

It's a good reason to start looking around, even if only to get an offer you can use to get a raise.

It's not about being greedy, most companies will pay you the minimum amount you'll work for, or close to it. If your salary is that far below the mean, there's probably still a good chunk of money on the table (if your company isn't broke or doesn't just have a policy of underpaying).

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