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Comment by pc86 | Hacker News Reader

I would love (seriously) to hear an example of a union that negotiates pay for its members but individuals successfully get additional raises or bonuses on top of that (not just for doing additional work). Teachers, pilots, public sector employees, all have pay contractually set. If you're a high school teacher and you ask your Principal or Vice Principal for a raise out of band you'll get laughed out of the room.

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Most teachers work in public schools so even if the principal could give them a raise they wouldn't be able to but in private schools they absolutely could. Pilots are an interesting example because AFIK they negotiated terribly, i.e. they have all sorts of benefits and high salaries for the high-tenured pilots but new pilots are almost working for free. Student pilots have been told for years that there's an upcoming shortage of pilots but right now you're lucky to get a job anywhere in the world. If you're looking for examples then look at europe. In my country everyone has the right to negotiate their salary once a year even though most people are part of a union. Where I worked I would always be able to get a couple of % added to my salary.

This regularly happens at Siemens. IG Metall negotiates contracts and good engineers negotiate bonuses on top of the contract, or increases in pay grade.

SAG. The NFL Players Union. Just two examples.

But the NFLPA still hurts top performers. The joint negotiating in the NFL absolutely leads to the highest paid players being paid less than they would without a union. The revenue split, the franchise tag, the minimum salary, the rookie pay scale (arguable), and the veteran benefits all lead to less of the pie being available to the top tier players and less negotiating power. The salary escrow provision is a great example of an out-of-date rule that exists due to CBA negotiations and 100% hurts the top earners (while also providing zero actual benefits - it just existed because it has been there for decades and it's an effort to change anything when doing collective bargaining).

Not that I think any of this is bad since the NFL is brutal to its lowest earners, but it absolutely hurts the highest earners.

Yes, and democracy hurts the top aristocrats. But we don't tend to view antidemocratic aristocrats very kindly, even if maintaining antidemocratic systems are good for them.

Some people experience less optimal outcomes in a union. Those people are free to resist unionization. What I don't like is the claim that, because some specific high performers can no longer negotiate as well, everybody else should shut up about unionization.

Do you see yourself as becoming a top earner in your field?

Someone else brought these two up elsewhere in this thread. Are there no examples of regular people who aren't making tens of millions of dollars a year?

Unions have largely been crushed in the US so if you keep asking for more examples eventually things will run dry.

But the screenwriters guild is another example if you don't want to look for one where top performers are paid eight figure salaries.

I'll have to look into the writer's guild more, thanks!

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