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Comment by dpcan | Hacker News Reader

I have 4 kids. I work from home. My wife works 11 hours a day away from the house. I feel like this world is full of "can't" people who aren't willing to do the extra work. We seem to have enough time to comment on Hacker News. To argue about masks on Facebook. To watch every TikTok, and spend hours on Twitter.

But put in the necessary work to make learning at home productive. Nope, can't do that.

We have put in the work at our house to make e-learning possible, and it can be effective, and kids can focus, and kids can wear masks, and kids CAN still LEARN during difficult times - but it takes sacrifices from parents, be it sleep, entertainment, our phones, TV, or even time off work and living lean.

But I'm ready for it... let's hear some CAN DO stuff from the HN community!

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What exactly is your daily routine then. Raising 4 kids while working full time with your spouse working 11 hours outside of the house is a pretty large claim.

Probably something like, get the kids dressed before the first nanny shows up at 8am...

I run my own business. Been a web consultant / developer for over 17 years. I have a pretty steady clientele right now. I work 6 to 9am, then 10-11pm, and I usually get a hour or two in during the day. Plus I work 6am to 10am weekends, maybe more if my wife isn't tired and hangs out with the kids on Saturday and Sunday afternoons.

You essentially work a half day. Burying the lede here a bit.

I never get to stop working, but thanks. Every day, all day, I get email and have to respond to a vast customer base. While I may not be coding away at my computer, I have to stop about 10 times a day to respond to customers, help them solve a problem, make an update, etc. It never ends, I never get vacation, I never get a weekend, I never get a holiday. I literally had a customer call me on Christmas last year because they got a new iPad and wanted me to help them put their domain email on it.

So, no. I do NOT just work a half-day, I prioritize, I multi-task, and it's very difficult to maintain this lifestyle.

Must be nice to have flexible working hours! Many people do not have that luxury, even when working remotely.

Sure, but some parents don't have the luxury of doing fewer hours at their job during the day like you. Weekends and vacations don't count.

> it’s very difficult to maintain this lifestyle

Serious question, why bother? Any normal job would have you working less (assuming it’s true that you never get a free weekend or holiday, which I kind of doubt). What do you get out of this? The ultimate satisfaction of helping a stranger receive email instead of being with your family on Christmas?

So you have flexible hours and on top of that, even if you go to sleep immediately at 11 and wake up exactly at 6, you don't get the average amount of sleep people need.

You may be an outlier who can do this, but the average human will break down with that schedule over the long term

I've run into a number of dads that drive really hard, always at the expense of sleep. They seems to die early, 40s 50s. Might be possible.

I'm in a similar kids/work situation and it's going very rough at best. But then again I'm a completely terrible parent, barely capable as a normal functioning adult, and my kids inherited the coked up hummingbird trait from their mother.

I don't think the point is it can't be done. I think it's just acknowledging that it's HARD. Both for the kids, and the parents.

What the hell is wrong with HARD???? Why is everyone so lazy? We are going backwards as a society. I was raised thinking that if it wasn't hard to do, it wasn't worth doing. Every uphill path should not be looked at as an arduous journey, but as an adventure with an amazing reward at the top.

I like your take on life - thanks for reminding me of this little fact.

I assume this is sarcasm, but if not, prepare for down-votes because absolutely nobody agrees with me.

> if it wasn't hard to do, it wasn't worth doing

that's a very narrow minded way of looking at the world. Kind words, hugs are very much worth it

The point is that the things that come easy for us are usually those that we value the least, so, after we put in a lot of hard work and time on something, and we had a great accomplishment, we'd say "if it wasn't hard to do, it wasn't worth doing." It's a self pat-on-the-back.

But I totally understand how if you applied this saying to EVERYTHING then it wouldn't make sense, or be seen as "narrow minded" I suppose.

I mean, fishing is pretty damn easy, but every trip I take is worth taking for the peace of mind.

Nothing is wrong with hard. But complaining about hard things, sympathy, and recognition of the difficulty is also a large portion of what makes doing hard things tolerable. Trying to shut it down will have the opposite effect of what you want.

have you been taught to tell hard from bullshit? i've been taught that hard and worthwhile are orthogonal and the amazing prize at the top sometimes is just the fact that you've made it, thanks, now get the f* back down you idiot.

Yes, sometimes I cannot tell the difference between hard and bullshit. And yes, I can be a complete idiot sometimes. So, thanks?

This comment is lacking in empathy. Not all situations can be solved by the same logic.

I'm sorry, and I agree, it wasn't. It was a frustrated post and I'm being down-voted because of it :/

I'm with you, we should approach problems with optimism not fear. However, teaching that approach to kids is a long term strategy, and helping them adapt to a new routine is a slow process, it's less about the difficulty and more about the emotional cost that you have to pay to succeed.

I have three kids, all elementary school age and I am prepping to start the school year all remote. I'm not afraid of the challenge but i'm honest with myself that it will take a toll on my kids and my marriage that I cannot avoid. No matter how hard I work, it will take time and getting into the routine cannot be done overnight.

It's okay to be daunted by that prospect.

Something being difficult and worthwhile doesn’t mean it’s the most efficient use of your time. And it doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t make those things easier. Building a computer is hard. It’s also worthwhile. I’ve built a few. But I’ve bought a lot more. It usually isn’t worth my time, effort, and energy.

And having conversations about the difficulties is how people, especially people on HN, will better understand the problem and come up with a solution that will (hopefully) leave everyone better off.

> If it wasn't hard to do, it wasn't worth doing

That might be true but if something is hard that doesn't mean it's automatically worth doing. Video conference learning might be both simultaneously hard and completely worthless.

You're right. My point is more that parents need to work really hard to be involved and turn that boring video class into something productive, interesting, and worthwhile.

So why don’t we make everything as hard as possible? Ditch the washing machine, wash your clothes by hand. Skip the grocery store, go hunt for your food instead.

I’m very curious about your daily schedule. I was homeschooled for 12 years, 1 of 5 kids so I’m familiar with home education and having a hard time imagining how a single adult can both work and teach and take care 4 kids.

I've run my own business for over 17 years. I get up early, work, stay up kind-of late, work, and get a lot of time in early on the weekends. It's not really that terrible. It's difficult, but doable, and I can still focus a lot of my energy on raising my kids.

I think that’s great, really. I also think that in your original comment you said that people should be focusing on what can be done with hard work rather than complaining about impossibility (paraphrasing).

Most people must work during daytime hours, and formal learning (for example, math that pushes the boundary of what you know) does not work very well for kids (or adults in my experience) in the evening. I’m glad that you have the flexibility such that you don’t have to do work 8-to-6, but that’s clearly not realistic or even possible for most people.

How does one hard work their way out of this? Start a business so you can teach during the daytime and in the meantime your kids do what exactly?

Even time off work? Do you have no understanding of other people? How can you assume that's an option for people?!

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