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Comment by dfxm12 | Hacker News Reader

I don't get it. Unless you're training for a very specific purpose (like an MMA fight or football season), why do you need specific indoor gym equipment? Shelter in place orders are largely lifted, so you can workout outside: run, do pull ups on a tree branch, ride a bike, lift a heavy stone, do an outdoor yoga class, etc. Hell, you only need maybe a 6' x 6' area for a perfectly effective body weight routine, even inside.

I get that some of this can be related to body dysmorphia, but that's probably a tiny corner case. Is it the thrill of doing something "illegal"/dangerous? Is it more denial about the impact of COVID? Hustlers trying to capitalize on a crisis?

Edit: based on some of the replies, it looks like it boils down to a sense of entitlement: people wanting to stick to their routines without a care of putting others at risk.

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"Lift a heavy stone"? That's a joke, right?

Barbells and dumbbells are appropriately ergonomic (handles, balance, etc.) and won't ruin your back if you use proper technique. Lifting a heavy stone is a recipe for injuring yourself severely.

People need specific indoor gym equipment if they lift, which is a very valid form of exercise. Or, you know, if it's raining or thunderstorming or a humid 100°F outside.

And bodyweight exercises only get you so far, even if you're doing one-handed or one-legged versions.

You can't just dismiss the fitness routines people have spent years choosing and refining and getting better at. The fact that you seriously suggest lifting a heavy stone demonstrates you don't seem to know much about safe fitness at all.

You can't just dismiss the fitness routines people have spent years choosing and refining and getting better at. That's incredibly arrogant.

More arrogant than putting other lives at risk because you can't put your routine on hold, or alter it for a bit? No. It isn't.

"Lift a heavy stone"? That's a joke, right?

No, and it's part of strongman competitions. It's not dangerous if you have the right form and don't overdo it. Same as dumbbells & barbells.

> why do you need specific indoor gym equipment?

He answered your question directly and then you change the goalposts. Clearly you hold the opinion that gyms should remain closed, and that's fine, but why even ask the question?

"More arrogant than putting other lives at risk because you can't put your routine on hold for a bit? No. It isn't."

This is the part I'm confused about. If gyms were open, people who's lives were at risk still wouldn't go to the gym. Only people who didn't care would go. They are consenting to the risk that would inherently come with it. It isn't the type of place that at risk people HAVE to go, so why shouldn't we open it for people that are fine with the consequences? Also, restaurants are all completely open for dine-in in many of the places that gyms have yet to open. How does that make any sense? No one magically stops breathing for the hour+ they're in the restaurant.

I think quarantine should be down to the individual and the rules they'd like to implement on their private property (including their business), but you've probably already gotten that by now.

>I think quarantine should be down to the individual and the rules they'd like to implement on their private property

Too bad most people leave their private property and interact with people in public spaces where their personal rules are moot.

Where would i even find a heavy stone?

Craigslist.

You can usually find a threadbare heavy equipment tire more easily though since most people with stones just let them sit whereas tires need to be disposed of.

Lifting stones has been a thing since at least ancient Greece.

On that note, construction workers do severely damaging work every day (not being sarcastic, they mess up their bodies for people who will haggle to the last cent). Show them more respect.

> People need specific indoor gym equipment if they lift, which is a very valid form of exercise. Or, you know, if it's raining or thunderstorming or a humid 100°F outside.

I've been lifting for 15 years, mostly in the gym. The last couple of years though, I've realized how much you can do with bands. You can't beat them on cost and convenience in the realm of home gym equipment. The only thing you can't reasonably do with them are squats. Deadlifts can be substituted with pull-throughs which are a better posterior chain movement anyway. Yea, you might have to do more reps. That's infinitely better than nothing.

Unless you're a competitive strength athlete, or trying to be one, not having access to a gym is frankly an excuse. In my younger days I used to have a very rigid mentality when it came to strength training which eventually led to burnout and extended vacations from the gym. Having mental flexibility instead of striving for some notion of perfection is what's kept me in this game long-term.

EDIT: typo

>You can't just dismiss the fitness routines people have spent years choosing and refining and getting better.

I am not, It must be very hard, to take away something you love and trained.

Society is asking you to sacrifice a big thing for something that may not benefit society at all. The chances of you catching and then spreading are ~ 1/1000. Assuming a 1% mortality. We are asking 100,000 people to give up something they love to save one loved one.

My own value system is that my enjoyment is not worth 1/100,000 of a person life. I would say in the order of 1/1,000,000. Based upon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALARP is where I get my figure.

I am interested which figure you think is reasonable - 10^5 or 10^6 or between or higher or dismiss the risk entirely ?

Society is asking you to sacrifice a big thing for something that may not benefit society at all.

^ They definitely aren't asking

are you really arguing there would be a higher chance of compliance if instead of making it law we resorted to politely asking?

You can use cheap resistance bands instead of pricey and heavy barbells and still get great results. You can hit all the same muscle groups just as hard. Honestly you probably hit more groups than what you hit in olympic lifts. These bands are also very available online compared to other equipment.

Some light reading on the subject:

https://yoga-horizons.com/pdfs/Fatmans-Guide-to-Cable-Traini...

I run ultra distance as a hobby, and before lockdown, I lifted heavy weights twice a week to prevent catabolism. Since lockdown began, I have continued to work out as hard as I can, but I have lost a significant amount of strength and muscle mass. You just can't get a certain type of training stimulus without barbells and plates.

I imagine that the problem is much worse for bodybuilders and powerlifters.

Can confirm. Lost 10+ kg since quarantine started, health-wise it was not good to experience this.

I'm what some would call a gym rat. I have my own home Gym though.

Working out has solved a ton of problems for me. Anxiety, Depression, Mood Swings, Rage. You get into a routine, and you don't want anyone or anything to mess with it. It's what makes you feel good. For me its the difference between a productive day and an unproductive one.

Changing things up, especially with improvisation, can result in injury. Or just not getting a desired result. For example, I squat 400lbs or more. Would I try to squat a 400lbs stone, not only no, but hell no.

For some that go to real gyms, it's not just the workout. It's the comradery that comes with doing hard things with friends. It's socialization.

I think it has very little to do with being a rebel or a denier, and a lot more to do with it being a way of life, for a lot of us.

Two points stand out to me.

It can be very hard to keep the same high quality of workouts without going to a specific facility and training with the guidance and motivation from peers. Not to be rude, your suggestions sound like ideas from someone who doesn't really work out much. Pull up on a tree branch? Lift a heavy stone?

Everyone's risk profile is different. I work in statistics and data, so I certainly have a different understand that gives me a more realistic perspective on the dangers.

It sort of reminded me of Rocky 4.

“Can’t go to the high tech gym? Just strap a fallen tree to your torso and drag it up a mountain!”

> Edit: based on some of the replies, it looks like it boils down to a sense of entitlement: people wanting to stick to their routines without a care of putting others at risk.

You asked why people would want specific equipment. You didn't ask whether the tradeoffs involved are worth it. The replies here mostly answer the question you asked, not the one you're pivoting to.

It is objectively more difficult to build strength using body weight exercises. Using a barbell or dumbbell allows for precise movements and gradual overload. Even body weight workout routines require equipment and space, which many people don't have. And many people have been locked down for months - it's enough time to destroy a huge amount of progress. For people who care about fitness, it is devestating. You can debate the morals of going somewhere with a higher risk of spreading corona, but it's silly to argue that people don't need gyms or special equipment.

Your right to something shouldn't be based on whether or not you "need" it. I'm fortunate enough to be in a state with open gyms and have nothing but respect for people who are taking risks to work out. Anyways, "needs": gym equipment has proper grips and cushioning for safe use over long periods of time. I'm less likely to blow out my back using proper form at the gym than with Macgyvered equipment at home. I need to go to the gym to use this equipment because lockdowns have caused a shortage and it's really, really, expensive to buy all the equipment yourself. You can also track and improve your performance over time with consistent incremental weights: I know that 10 additional pounds of resistance will always be 10 pounds, something that a bag of rocks can't replicate. Lastly, weight training creates a different physique to body weight training, endurance training/running, etc. You cannot decide that this physique is worth any less than the others.

Going to the gym is a ritual for many people, and rituals can be an essential part of maintaining one’s mental health. I’m not justifying the speakeasy gyms, but I completely understand why someone would feel compelled to use one.

> Going to the gym is a ritual for many people

A thing that is very important about rituals is that there are almost always triggers of when the ritual should be performed. Often that trigger involves being in a specific place.

For exercise, that trigger is going to the gym.

For work, that trigger is going to the office

For religion, that trigger is going to the church / temple / etc.

When you deprive people of the ability to be in the correct place, then their trigger is blocked and their rituals don't happen.

Yes, you could retool your rituals (work from home is the biggest example of this), but for many things, the motivation or desire just isn't there.

The spaces are too important to the ritual itself.

So I can totally see why people would want to go to the gym even if they weren't supposed to.

I’ve been thinking about this problem, and I wonder how important smell is to rituals and it what extent we can use olfactory sensations to trigger different mind spaces.

Ive had a certain degree of success mimicking this by adding smells via essential oil defusers are key points like “starting work” or “preparing for bed”, but I can’t say I’ve found a silver bullet. Still, I think there’s something here.

I can seriously relate to this. I have been going to the gym 5-6 days a week for years and absolutely loved it. As soon as the gyms closed down, my motivation to stay in shape plummeted. It was like a light switched off. I did absolutely nothing fitness related for a few months, just waiting for the gyms to open back up.

I finally started biking recently, but I struggle to get motivated and get out of the apartment to do it. That was never a problem when going to the gym.

Same here. I can't work out if I'm not at the gym.

Mental health is the reason why I still go to my crossfit gym. Its small, the same 8-9 people show up when I do. Ive only lived in this town for two years and my only friend moved away earlier this year - no family. I did quarantine when a case was discovered during the rare time I have to be an office and I had two serious depressive episodes in which I spent the better part of three days intoxicated. I've been into fitness for almost 15 years, sure I know I can get a workout 10 different ways on my own but right now I have to have other people.

I remember reading a twitter quote about someone who felt their workouts "didn't matter" if they didn't have their GPS tracker with them on the workout.

Gym, as in the physical location, is also very much part of the "fitness habit". It doesn't feel the same doing it outside by yourself.

You shouldn't be doing pullups on tree branches, no matter how sturdy they look. I know someone who was seriously injured while using a seemingly healthy tree branch to exercise.

A 6x6 area can be hard to find. In my apartment, getting that requires moving two bulky pieces of furniture.

When I injured my back (years ago), I had to go to physical therapy and use specific machines that isolated the muscles in order to help regenerate muscle in the area. The physical therapy office was connected to a health center which was essentially a public gym. Together with my trainer, we used the facility's weight lifting and resistance band machines in a safe and controlled manner.

It has since healed, and I am better now. However, there was a point in time where I had to continue going to the gym and keep using those weight machines. It took a few years before I was back to normal and could start working with more generalized equipment. So there's more than just a sports-focused need (like MMA fighting or football) for gym equipment, and that equipment cannot easily be substituted, nor can it be done safely with a bike or a heavy stone.

For a lot of people serious about the gym, they are way past just getting any workout in. They are very specific about what workout, what machine, what day of the week, etc.. Just switching to running is like telling some backend architecture programmer to just switch to Photoshop; to an outsider they're both tech on computers..But in the bubble we all know it's world's of difference.

There’s a saying among lifters that the heaviest weight is the gym door.

When you’re feeling depressed or lazy, just showing up at the gym can kick start an upward spiral.

Some sports can only be done indoor.

Nothing to do with body dysmorphia or doing something "illegal" but based on the fact that covid is not as severe that warrant stopping recreational activity.

Is simply risk vs benefit.

I tried doing body weight workouts during the lockdown and it all felt extremely unsatisfying and ersatz after being used to my normal strength workouts. I also struggled not to lose muscle mass that had taken me a long time to build up.

Removing anything associated with people's identity is going to cause a ruckus. A lot of these things are part of people's mental and physical health regimens. The story is the same for bars, gyms, churches, etc.

I've lost 2+ inches on my arms, chest and legs after 20 years of working out fairly consistently. I was the strongest I had ever been just before COVID-19 hit. I'm not super-depressed about it quite yet, because the gym had become a bit of a crutch for avoiding dealing with problems in my life.

But after so many months off, I'm reaching the point where the lost gains might not be recoverable. I have to decide sometime soon whether to get back into the gym or give it up permanently.

It's not a total loss since I've been doing handyman work for my boss and 50 incline pushups 2-3 times per week. I'm in generally good health and my face is thinner. Still stinks though.

I bought a used weight bench and plan to use it soon. And I'm still paying my gym membership, only $20/mo for life at a converted Gold's Gym. But we get such a boost in the first 6 weeks of n00b gains after a break that I feel it's better to go all-in rather than dabble.

Oh and to answer your question: pumping iron is a hack. My girlfriend does kickboxing, and it's a tremendously physical exercise revolving around burpies and other crossfit-style functional training. It's really good. But, I feel that weightlifting provides a much higher bang for the buck because it takes advantage of 2 to 5 day overcompensation cycles in the body so that gains continue indefinitely. So my intensity under the bar over an hour and a half period never even reaches the intensity of her warmup. Yet I put on perhaps 2 to 4 times as much muscle as I would cross training, for 1/2 to 1/4 the effort, which works out to about a 4 to 16 times better return on investment (an order of magnitude better result).

I pump iron because I'm lazy, is what I'm saying.

Maybe read up on cable training if you want an alternative to pumping iron:

https://yoga-horizons.com/pdfs/Fatmans-Guide-to-Cable-Traini...

Some people enjoy lifting weights to get stronger. It is a hobby.

It is a healthy hobbie. By the way, also cleans you mind. I do run long distances, but with the current situation I am no longer able to run outside they way I wanted. So I started going to gyms, and yes, probable they should not be working, but it keeps me mentally sane.

Acting normally during a mass hysteria sets a good example.

> why do you need specific indoor gym equipment

s/need/want/

This article could just as easily have been written about speakeasy bars that have opened during lockdown.

I started a bodyweight routine (the Reddit recommended routine) in March and have had awesome results so far. It can be daunting to get started but you can do full body workouts if you buy a set of rings and a pull up bar. I eventually put a bar up in my garage but I was able to start working out with one of the basic door mounted bars at first. So you really can get started with very minimal upfront equipment costs.

I could probably target my leg muscles more effectively at a nice gym with barbells, but after 5 months, I'm still working through bodyweight based progressions for deadlifts and squats, so I don't feel like I've plateaued yet. I've made big progress too. When I started I could barely do a single pull-up and now I'm up to 3 sets of 6 per workout. Similar story for pushups, I can crank out 20-30 of those now no problem, where I struggled to hit 5 before.

The ease with which you can get fit at home has been one of the pleasant surprises of this pandemic.

You're coming from the perspective of someone who is still getting newbie gains. If your goal is to be reasonably fit and healthy, you're on the right track.

But some people have been going to the gym for decades and take it very seriously as a hobby. Losing access to the gym will set them back years.

What's your threshold for "putting others at risk"?

Zero tolerance?

One potential infection of a 300million+ population?

One potential death of a 300million+ population?

For many of us, working out is a core part of our identity. It's taken literal years to get to the levels we're at, and to see that progress roll backwards is debilitating, in a mental sense.

Since you don't work out, I assume you like food. Imagine if you had to spend months eating nothing but Soylent because of $reasons, then when you complain you get chirping like "I don't get it, it's the same nutritional value, you don't need any real food".

You can work outside but you are limited by the weather, and by available equipment. In quarantine it has been impossible to find a squat rack and a complete set of barbell plates. Whereas every gym (besides planet fitness) will have several of these.

Further, "Heavy stone" workouts do not easily lend themselves to progressive overload, or varied programming.

Read the description of the folks that invaded one person's private speakeasy gym: "gym bros" who were described as "grunting and using all the equipment, taking selfies in the mirror, flexing their triceps". I'm guessing there's more to it than just getting pumped, perhaps there's an audience component, too.

That also sounds like the "folks that invaded" had a narrative they expected to fulfill.

Those passages said a lot more about NPR and its audience than the gym-goers, really.

They were quoting a gym-goer.

Which gym-goer you quote matters.

I'm convinced this guy never went to gym.

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