Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices | Hacker News Reader

Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices

oculus.com

1,858 pointssuperted1,025 comments

Palmer Luckey, the original creator had this to say over on /r/oculus:

  I am already getting heat from users and media outlets who say this policy change proves I was lying when I consistently said this wouldn't happen, or at least that it was a guarantee I wasn't in a position to make. I want to make clear that those promises were approved by Facebook in that moment and on an ongoing basis, and I really believed it would continue to be the case for a variety of reasons. In hindsight, the downvotes from people with more real-world experience than me were definitely justified. 

  A few examples below so people won't make up their own version of what I actually said:

  - I guarantee that you won't need to log into your Facebook account every time you wanna use the Oculus Rift.
  - You will not need a Facebook account to use or develop for the Rift
  - Nope. That would be lame.
  - I promise.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/ic4ye1/new_oculus_u...

Exhibit n + 1 on why when you're acquired you're not in a position to promise anything to anyone despite any assurances from the acquirer. Or, from the consumer's side, why those promises should carry no weight.

As a CEO of a company that is being sold you can not make any binding statements about the future of the company you will no longer own. This is really management 101 and Palmer Luckey does not strike me as an absolute beginner here, he knew how to get funded, how to execute and had a ton of people telling him this would happen. Of course he and FB had a pretty strong incentive to ensure that there wouldn't be an immediate break-off risk to the acquisition, and of course there was plenty of evidence from other acquisitions that this is how the world works.

I'd like to believe him, but it is pretty hard to do so given the historic record of acquisitions to date.

For me the heuristic is simple: I won't believe a word a CEO that is selling his company says about what will happen post deal. They are no longer in control and should know better.

Most of the folks on this thread are commenting from the perspective of 2020, but Facebook had pretty significantly different reputation in 2014, especially around M&A. They had recently brought in both Instagram and WhatsApp without meddling in either their product stacks or their leadership teams. It's easy to claim now that this was all naive, but at the time it was plausible that these organizations and brands would remain fairly independent and autonomous within the Facebook umbrella.

>In hindsight, the downvotes from people with more real-world experience than me were definitely justified.

I don't want to assume bad intent, but I find it hard to believe that someone could be so naive about the project and the organization controlling it.

Hopefully Palmer Luckey has more foresight into how technology can be used in unintended ways now that he is building autonomous defense and surveillance system at Anduril Industries.

Palmer is a first class jerk and other things I would maybe get banned for saying, but this is as good and honest an apology as I think he can give. Things change, and it has been many years since he said this.

Practically every corporate acquisition in the history of ever goes something like: day 1: "Nothing will change." Six months later: "All you knew is gone."

Just make a fake FB account exclusively for this purpose. If you're forced to use a FB account at least don't link it to your actual profile. I have a separate fake FB account for every service that requires FB.

Facebook has historically be truly crappy in this regards. The Instagram founders had a similar story, but rather than publish a half-apology, they left the company (walking away from quite a bit of money in the process.

It's gotta be hard to be a founder in a situation like this.

What are we looking for from CEOs? I feel like, if a CEO had made such flatly incorrect promises about something with direct financial implications (sales, costs, the industry in general) they would be seen as failing at their job. Luckey seems comfortable simply pointing out that he didn't make the mistake people have accused him of. It's enough to say he made another (perhaps lesser) mistake. There's nothing in the statement that reckons with his previous understanding of FB or Occulus and what else he might have gotten wrong. It feels disappointing to me.

also interesting from that reddit thread were these comments:

> I'm mostly surprised that they haven't done this with Whatsapp or Instagram thus far, but they are doing it for Oculus accounts.

> > As of a few days ago, they're starting the process of moving Instagram DMs to Messenger, requiring a FB account. So, they are.

> > > The people I know in product at Facebook are certain it is an inevitability for their entire portfolio. That's second-party hearsay, so take it as you will, but it's my operating understanding that is their long term (multi-year) goal.

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/ic4ye1/new_oculus_u...

These promises are made from acquirers to acquirees so that they can save face, and tell everyone that they received these promises so that they have a rebuttal to accusations of being a "sell-out."

They aren't done with a wink and a nudge, but everyone knows that they're bullshit, it lets the entrepreneur maintain his public image while letting the carnivore devour its meal in due course.

I don't know enough about Palmer Luckey to make any kind of statement about him or his decisions but as Upton Sinclair said:

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his [possible billions] depends upon his not understanding it.

He absolutely knew that this was a very real possibility and made the statements anyways to save face at the time. He was probably hoping no one would care when it eventually happened.

I would argue that he was and still is lying. He had the power to make good on his promise in the form of contractual terms during the sale, but didn't.

A lot of people forget just how young Palmer Lucky is.

I absolutely believe his post here. He was young and naive and believed the lies from the Facebook executives. Completely understandable and I hope this doesn't make people think he's a liar.

Don't people realize they're complaining at a billionare and have basically no leverage at all? This backlash should have come BEFORE Palmer got PAID, not YEARS LATER. I don't think Palmer even goes on reddit anymore.

Well, almost everyone who starts a sentence with "I guarantee that" is bound to turn up as a failure.

To the extent that Facebook made those promises to someone authorized to disseminate them, I wonder if they've opened themselves up to refund claims well beyond original purchase dates.

If anyone purchased the device relying upon Palmer Luckey's promises, that could be promissory estoppel.

(Not a lawyer, etc etc.)

These same type of statements were made by the whatsapp founders regarding ads on whatsapp(they said they will never happen etc.)[1]

All that went out the window once the company was bought for 19B, sure both founders left a few years later, but their statements were false after the sale.

That kind of promise from Facebook should be enforceable on court.

If it is not it's only because the current government judicial system is so full of spam-cases and it is so inefficient that it doesn't have room for these things.

Yeah like when the promised not to use any WhatsApp data. And here we are, I give it 1 year before we see commercials and deep integration with FB messenger. Who believes anything they say anymore?

Could this be the reason for John Carmack leaving facebook

Sounds like the promise was at least made in good faith which counts for something.

Yep: you cannot promise anything beyond your control.

"I guarantee...." Time to pay up

Perhaps it also went like this:

    [Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one?
    Zuck: I don't know why.
    Zuck: They "trust me"
    Zuck: Dumb fucks

He was lying then. He's lying now.

so is this the start of virtual world deeply integration to facebook society?

Never trust your acquirer farther than you can throw them

This is something that still completely baffles me about the "IoT"/"smart devices"/"connected devices"/"whatever you want to call it" space.

If someone advertised a device as capable of doing X without it in fact being able to do X, they'd be liable for false advertising.

If someone sold you a device, then took it back or destroyed it, they'd be liable for theft or destruction of property.

Nevertheless, if someone sells you a connected device and then completely alters the rules by which the device operates at an arbitrary point in time after the sell, that's perfectly fine.

Have we really given up basic consumer rights that easily?

>Have we really given up basic consumer rights that easily?

Well, yes. I don't know if you've noticed, but short-term convenience trumps all other concerns. The market can't really deal with these issues, because they are too subtle and expensive for individuals to work out for themselves. We really do need collective action, by way of regulation, similar to how we recognized as a society that workplace safety laws were not something private businesses were ever going to compete on, and we just needed to force them to comply. And no doubt the same howls of protest let loose then, too, about how "the extra costs will put me out of business", etc. It was then, as it is now, hogwash.

And in fact I would argue this kind of regulation not only important for consumers, but for national security. As more and more individuals lives become dependent on centralized information infrastructure, the more damage espionage (foreign or domestic) can do, not to mention the effect of wide-scale DoS attacks. Imagine a world where all smart devices are bricked...so much of the old infrastructure is gone - phones, phone books, maps, manuals. In some cases you might not even be able to vacuum your house (Roomba owners), or make a POTS phone call.

So yeah, its bad on multiple fronts, and I fear that the correcting event will be catastrophic (like, supply chain catastrophic, leading to starvation).

It baffles me too. My Samsung smart tv started showing me ads in the control panel/home screen. I paid full price for it, why am I seeing ads. I wish I could return it, but the snakes waited until the return period was over.

In Australia after some "on the box" features were no longer applicable to the product I bought, I was able to refund the product.

This has worked for;

- Consumer devices (cloud support dropped within the lifetime of the device, features dropped likely as a cost saving measure to the manufacturer)

- Software (features removed or culled after buying)

- Smart TVs (claiming support for different platforms)

- Gaming consoles (OtherOS on PS3)

This usually hurts the retailer - they don't want to risk going after the manufacturer because they want to sell their products. I've been banned from buying from one store after returning a product and then posting about it publicly, many others returned as well when they realised it was possible - I can assume some took advantage of this fact as a "I paid full price for this 1.5 years ago, it's now worth 50% less, I can return it and buy a better model from somewhere else" endeavour.

I think the problem is that the "masses" would still buy the Oculus product as if nothing was wrong with it. From there, it's pretty difficult to convince people (e.g. a regulator or a judge) that your item is of no use to you anymore.

PKD predicted this 50 years ago https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7444685-the-door-refused-to...

> Have we really given up basic consumer rights that easily?

Is there anything I can do as a mere consumer to lobby for my rights?

It's not just that, it's also the store. If you choose not to log with the Facebook ID, do I also lose access to all of my purchases? It seems extra scummy.

Good point, that being said market pressure can sometimes influence that.

Sonos was a hair short of bricking their old devices a few months ago, then backtracked after getting a lot of fire from their customers.

I'm wondering if this would be true for larger companies / acquisitions though. Would they have done the same if purchased by Google or Facebook?

Consumer protection laws generally lag behind these problems, so it might be premature to say we've given up. We have to know the problem exists, and then we have to go through the (slow) legislative process.

This same thing just happened to Belkin WeMo. Looking forward to the class action.

I bought a bunch of switches because the offered local control and no account needed, now an account is required to set up anything new and local control is apparently going away. I’m now wary of anything that needs a proprietary app at all which would give them the ability to do this in the first place.

Nah, this is how laws are made. Someone keeps pushing the limits of what they can do to other people, then enough people have enough of it and push back, companies are fined, legislation is created, bs stops happening for a while. Same shit, different day (at least until we change the shit out of the climate/environment, heh).

I've always thought it was odd how they can advertise Google Assistant, Siri, etc.., as if it's some magical thing that understands everything you say, but in practice it's worse than useless. It gives you hope that it works, but it never does, it only frustrates you. In my experience, anyway.

> then completely alters the rules by which the device operates at an arbitrary point in time after the sell

You usually agree to a EULA that allows them to do that. If you cannot agree to the EULA then you return the product.

Now, I will give full credit that no one reads those, but Legality doesn't care if you fail to do due diligence.

Sounds like something the EU will look at in the future if they aren't already.

it's a different world

sometimes things get bricked, other times they get new features for free

teslas couldn't self-drive and then, one OTA update later, they could

companies release security updates

society doesn't know how to regulate OTA; change is sometimes bad for users but not always.

Rights are something you need to constantly fight for, otherwise they absolutely will go away. Portland isn't just bored, they're ahead of the curve.

You need internet to download games to your oculus quest, so it makes sense to have an account to keep track of what games you own no? I still don't understand what people have against this change. You needed an oculus account prior to this, now it's a facebook account, what's the big deal?

A very brief history of Facebook's involvement with Oculus and how this has shaped up, just from quickly searching HN previous posts:

- (2014) Facebook acquires Oculus: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469115, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469237

- (2016) Oculus's privacy policy sparks concern: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11410809

Oculus responds to privacy concerns about user tracking (https://uploadvr.com/facebook-oculus-privacy/) saying

> Facebook owns Oculus and helps run some Oculus services, such as elements of our infrastructure, but we’re not sharing information with Facebook at this time. We don’t have advertising yet and Facebook is not using Oculus data for advertising – though these are things we may consider in the future.

- (2019) If logged into Facebook, Oculus data may be used for ads: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21770752

From their official statement:

> If you choose not to log into Facebook on Oculus, we won’t share data with Facebook to allow third parties to target advertisements to you based on your use of the Oculus Platform.

- (2020): Facebook accounts are now required.

None of this is particularly surprising, lots of people (even in the press) were calling out how this was going to evolve. But it's still interesting to look back 6 years and see what the initial reactions were and what people were most concerned about.

The takeaways:

- data silos are always temporary

- companies think on a larger timeline than just 2 years in advance

- this kind of thing nearly always gets executed as a slow boil. Facebook didn't buy Oculus and immediately require an account and start advertising to users. But I don't believe for one second that Mark wasn't thinking it at the time.

But did Facebook add any value (i.e. engineering money/hours) to improve the device? What you've listed are all negatives, but there have to be at least a few positives to come out of it.

That's one side of the story, the Quest wouldn't exist without Facebook

I don't understand what value FB gets from VR device data. I have never understood the acquisition, but that point in particular has never been clear.

Or is it just that the end goal is to advertise in VR, and the acquisition was a grasp at a dystopian daydream?

Well this is horrifying. I bought a Quest for a relative. He loves it, but he doesn't have a Facebook account, and has no interest in signing up. I have a Facebook account, but I don't use it, and I certainly don't want to connect my Oculus account. I guess we'll both have to sell our Quests. That means we'll lose all of our game purchases.

I came to Oculus with eyes wide open knowing it was a Facebook company, but this news still sucks.

If you make a Facebook account and never touch the Facebook aspect of it, is there any material difference between that and an Oculus account?

As a VR developer I'm really sad to hear this news. I've always been against the walled garden approach. I feel like it's only a matter of time before they block SideQuest.

However - supposedly your oculus account will be valid until the end of 2022 [0]. At that point you could change to a newer hardware platform from another manufacturer.

[0] https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-facebook-account-required-ne...

Just make a burner Facebook account. You can do so with a burner email. Annoying, but not horrifying.

If you're in a country with half-decent consumer protections, you ought to be able to return the device, as it no longer functions as sold.

I've had a Rift for several years now. I haven't had a Facebook account in far longer.

I've also spent a bit of money on Rift games. This is angering.

That's exactly why I went for the Rift S instead and bought all my games through Steam. So I can sell that piece of plastic and get something not feom Oculus.

You don't have any contact info in your profile, but if you're serious, I already have a Facebook account that I use daily so I don't care much.

I'll buy one of them from you for $300 or the pair for $500. That seems like the going price? Contact is in my profile, let me know.

> ... but he doesn't have a Facebook account,...

Not that he knows. https://theconversation.com/shadow-profiles-facebook-knows-a...

so here i am wondering if facebook would be challenged by a constant flood of anonymous [off graph] accounts constantly flooding in. how many 3card monte accounts per second would be required to keep the account verifier demon flooded

I'm interested in buying it from you if this is actually the case.

I'm in a similar boat. I purchase a Quest a while back (unaware of the Facebook affiliation), and really enjoy it. I can't see myself using it again after this, however.

A tad hyperbolic, don't you think?

It may not take effect until 2023.

How hard is it to create a facebook account?

What happens if you were banned from Facebook (for example political censorship or other possible reasons I can't think of off the top of my head)? Is your Oculus device bricked and useless? I'm a fan of Oculus, but this is a bit of a turn off. But I guess if Apple makes their own VR headset, they probably require an Apple account but Apple isn't really a social network so feel less of a risk, same for Microsoft's Mixed Reality headsets too I'd imagine.

Then your purchases and stuff are lost too, I guess as WebXR matures though maybe there will be some great apps you can just pay directly for on the web, but I feel like if rumors of Apple making a headset they'll just skip WebXR and force the app store... I know other headsets including the Oculus supports WebXR but sorta feels like it's a conflict of interest to their own stores to me so wonder how much more advanced it'll get.

Apple is now using the notarization system on desktop to ban apps from companies that broke iOS App Store rules, so you could for instance get your drone strike death toll app that was making a political statement taken down and lose your desktop notarization (which was supposed to be about security only) on a totally unrelated app in retaliation.

VR adult games is a growing genre. These are real time games and as the tech gets better they can be much more engaging than a static video.

If Apple's device can't run them will that be significant in their adoption?

On topic, it's a reason not to own an FB VR device as I really don't want FB knowing which apps I run (nor do I want Apple knowing which apps I run for that matter)

This creates a chilling effect which puts my first ammendment rights at risk as an American, and it should be (and probably is if anyone actually bothered to correctly interpret the law anymore) illegal.

>What happens if you were banned from Facebook

Your social credit goes down, of course

This was the reason I bought an HTC Vive instead of a Rift; I never trusted that this would hold. I recently considered buying a Quest. I won't ever consider that again.

Don't support Facebook ever, they don't deserve it.

Incidentally here is a comment I made recently about the bullshit they pulled on my wife and I relating to creating a business listing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23959088

The SteamVR ecosystem is just so much nicer. I trust them far more than any of the alternatives. OpenVR for example has lead to many fantastic tools.

> Giving people a single way to log into Oculus — using their Facebook account and password — will make it easier to find, connect, and play with friends in VR.

Ugh. I guess Facebook is making a play to become the Steam/XBox Live of VR. Why can't we just have gaming peripherals anymore without some kind of platform tie-in?

Because the companies make a large amount of money on the platform. Look at Apple/Google/MS/Sony/Nintendo charging for access to the platform - either explicitly for online play, by taking a cut of sales on the platform, or in the case of the console makers - both.

As someone who prefers to play games alone, it's frustrating. The first five minutes after installing Steam is a constantly stream of "stfu and stop shoving game release/update/sale announcements in my face", "gtfo with the popup messages that a friend is playing a game", "wtf? why are you auto-logging me into the messenger", "no, I don't consent to you building a hardware inventory of my machine and using it for internal stats", and "jfc, please just leave me alone and let me play some games".

It's almost enough to make me buy a shack in Montana and support the post office.

They just want to squeeze as much data as they can out of you. The ultimate goal is to stand as a proxy between you and the real world. I'm not saying this is what they are trying to build with AR and VR, but that's not too far fetched either.

Just imagine eye tracking tech in VR headsets. What a trove of data for advertisers! Did the user see may ad? For how long? Etc.

I hadn't imagined that before writing this, but they could do the exact same thing in the real world with AR. Did you spend some time looking at that car? You are interested in cars. Spending some time in the garden? Watching birds? Running? Etc. What's better than an always-on, always-ouside device which you use as a proxy to see things, and request information? MITM TLS (which Google technically does with Chrome) becomes useless if you just have access to the eyes.

Hardware is difficult and expensive to make, and consumers are very price-sensitive.

In a world where everyone has a service subscription or a data hose to subsidize their hardware (see: most phones, game consoles, kitchen appliances, "smart assistants"), it's very difficult to be competitive just making hardware.

Given that the Oculus Quest is effectively a flagship phone with a strap attached to it at ~1/10 the sales volume of a flagship phone (rough figures: [0] [1]), it would be very difficult to even pay engineering expenses without a secondary income stream enabled by a) real-identity advertisement targeting/data sucking and b) ecosystem lock-in.

[0] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Galaxy-S20-series-sales-number... [1] https://arinsider.co/2020/05/25/data-dive-has-oculus-sold-80...

Windows Mixed Reality headsets are the best in this regard. Still locked to Windows but at least that's not a social platform. I really wish there was a version of it with better quality controller tracking, it's fairly good, but not on par with Oculus or Valve controller tracking.

More like the walled garden Apple App Store approach. Except this time it's a company with a bad track record of tracking you.

Steam is already the Steam of VR, btw. They have the flagship title (Alyx) and Oculus exclusives aren't necessarily compelling enough to make it a deal breaker.

I understand allowing the option to login with your Facebook account, but how is forcing it make anything easier?

Oculus was always trying to do this. When they first launched they did the same purchased exclusives stuff epic has done. Their software isn't compatible with other platforms except through unsupported hacks and they have no plans of changing that.

This was the whole oculus spirit since the beginning.

Because this is how the industry works now. Investors want to see the consistent revenue of XaaS platforms, so XaaS platforms are what you get -- and if you want hardware, it will be platform-tied.

The platform play was the only reason they bought Oculus.

My monitor, mouse and keyboard don't require any accounts (yet?), why does a device with two monitors and motion sensors require it?

>My monitor, mouse and keyboard don't require any accounts (yet?)

I take it you don't have any Razer devices.

Because Facebook needs your data.

And it's incredibly creepy. Movement just feels like an extremely intimate piece of data.

Oculus Quest is actually a complete gaming console, which is why you can use it for untethered play. You can buy and install games on it.

to track what games you bought and downloaded so you can download them again if your device breaks?

If those devices were invented in 2020 you can be certain they would all be "platforms" with monthly subscriptions. They would also have nonstop rabid defenders on social media.

So if I don't have a Facebook account and I buy an Oculus Quest after October, does this mean I may have to submit a copy of my driver's license just to set up a piece of consumer electronics?

You might not be able to use it even then. I deleted, not suspended, my Facebook account years ago and recently tried to create a new one because there was a Facebook group I needed access to. Created the account and a few minutes later it was suspended with no mention as to why and I was required to submit a photo of my driver's license to appeal the suspension. I did so and ended up waiting weeks before discovering that the account was now permanently suspended with no ability to appeal. No reason given. I literally did nothing between creating the account and it being suspended so I couldn't have violated any policies.

You need to submit a copy of your driver's license for a FB account these days??

If they suspect you aren't who you are then yeah. Otherwise generally a phone number and email are enough. That's the price for Facebook, but it's good to be informed about what you're sacrificing.

Genuinely think VR would be dead by now and considered a flash in the pan fad if it wasn't for the software and hardware Oculus has done. Valve and HTC just really didn't invest the time and money seriously in the platform and think HL:Alyx only shipped because Oculus dragged the format forward and showed the potential.

Just don't get why they're doing this at this point, I'd understand if they had iPhone level sales but although the Quest is selling great it's not there yet and it seems a misstep to push everyone into FB from it so soon lots of people will be turned off by the idea. Forcing the tens of thousand Oculus holdouts and saving a handful of engineering salaries surely can 't be worth the bad press and harm to the growing platform

Hope the 4 people who bought Quests after playing mine don’t whinge to me about this.

When the actor seems irrational, you should step back and ask "who is the actor and what are their motivations?"

This doesn't feel like an act of Facebook as a whole. They should be thinking long term, big picture. Zuckerberg seems to have an image of Neuromancer's Matrix in his head, and we ain't there yet. He'd definitely take this step but I wouldn't think he'd do it until he more solidly owns VR.

What I see here is a senior manager type, maybe a VP or a bit below it, who needs numbers that go dramatically up and to the right in the short term and is thinking about their own personal success. They'd be the ones to say "how do we turn this acquisition into Facebook-measurable success metrics so we can prove that we're worth all this spending? Ah, yes, mandate Facebook logins, great idea, do it."

Is this a non-sarcastic comment?

Valve and HTC VR are far superior. Quest is selling great because it's a standalone, but the resolution is poor and it's pretty buggy. Mine crashes at some point in about 33% of sessions. Oculus store has a very limited selection of games, and their recommendation engine is laughably bad ("Did you like Beatsaber? maybe you'll like a roller coaster simulator"). Casting from the Quest barely functions and disconnects frequently. Thank god for Sidequest, or I'd already have upgraded to Valve Index.

In what way do you think Oculus is superior?

Quelle surprise, a big tech company making a big tech company move to drive users into their embattled flagship.

I take this as a negative indicator of how things are going for Facebook. I don’t see any synergy with oculus other than that both products have users. Maybe that is enough from a business standpoint, but I feel forcing login to Facebook is going to kill oculus adoption, it isn’t like 6 years ago, there are viable alternatives if you want a VR rig. It just looks and feels desperate to me.

> I feel forcing login to Facebook is going to kill oculus adoption

I'm hoping you are right, but I feel like the average consumer is not so privacy aware and wouldn't mind using Facebook as their login. It's probably even more convenient since they already have a Facebook account and don't need to create an additional account for Oculus.

I recently gave a seminar about how to use Oculus devices in combination with Unity at university. Oculus produces great devices, but man is the software a convoluted nightmare.

A (very patient) student of mine tried to install the oculsu software on a current thinkpad for 4 days in a row. It always failed for various reasons. She used a current Windows 10 and her computer definitly has the specs. She even reinstalled windows. In the end there was an electron error, which we sent to the support - we never got a reply.

If you can avoid Oculus, do so at all cost.

What are viable alternatives?

Some shade from HP's Joanna Popper on r/HPReverb...

"The HP Reverb G2 does not require a Facebook account today or in 2023."

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/ic93cn/for_anyone...

A lot of justified outrage here but I would make a separate point: I think Facebook has made a terrible decision here in terms of their platform play. They legitimately had a chance here to own the future of not just consumer but business computing. The apps now coming on the scene for virtual workspaces still have limitations but it is utterly clear to me that this will become a major mode of work and collaboration in the business world at some point in the future. But requiring facebook logins just threw a huge hurdle in front of that. There is no way I am going to suggest our workplace purchase these and then have everybody logging in with personal facebook accounts. And I can't imagine workplaces mandating people have or use facebook accounts.

I guess we will wait to see what Apple and Microsoft now do in the space since Facebook and Google both seem to have (inexplicably) bowed out of the race.

It's also a terrible decision for the other uses of VR, escapism, porn, games… For escapism, you don't want to be constantly reminded of the real world. For the other uses you don't want your real life friends and family to know how much time you spend on that…

What do they mean by this?

> Using a VR profile that is backed by a Facebook account and authentic identity helps us protect our community and makes it possible to offer additional integrity tools. For example, instead of having a separate Oculus Code of Conduct, we will adopt Facebook’s Community Standards as well as a new additional VR-focused policy. This will allow us to continue to take the unique considerations of VR into account while offering a more consistent way to report bad behavior, hold people accountable, and help create a more welcoming environment across our platforms. And as Facebook adds new privacy and safety tools, Oculus can adopt and benefit from them too.

Isn't oculus just some kind of display device? Last time I've checked LG and Samsung doesn't really policy what kind of content I'm using their monitors for.

They're trying to retcon something that sounds ever-so-slightly reasonable into a slimy business decision.

I'm reminded of this blog post from 2014. The predictions made here so far have basically all held true 6 years later.

http://assayviaessay.blogspot.com/2014/03/virtual-spaces-rea...

This action feels really connected to the coming Horizon virtual world thing -- which coincidentally is also predicted in the blog post linked above.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/25/facebook-horizon/

This seems to mean that Facebook's account review/policy process and lack of customer service - basically, that you're the product - now decides who can use Oculus.

A week ago, I tried to sign up for Facebook in order to buy some ads[1]. With nothing remarkable about the account or metadata[2], the first page I saw after the signup form was

> Your Account Has Been Disabled. You can't use Facebook because your account, or activity on it, didn't follow our Community Standards.

That page was shown immediately after the signup form. I jumped through their hoops of providing an SMS-able phone number, then a photo, and a few days later got this final result:

> Your Account Has Been Disabled. You can't use Facebook because your account, or activity on it, didn't follow our Community Standards. We have already reviewed this decision and it can't be reversed."

Again, there's no activity on the account because I never saw any FB pages, let alone used it. I'm not concerned - I cancelled my personal account back in 2013 and never looked back, and other than wanting to buy some public-service ads, I still have no interest in it. I sure would care if I had an Oculus, though.

[1]: Because Twitter prohibits or applies extra terms to many types of issue/advocacy ads, and while I applaud their approach, those of us running public-service campaigns get stuck in unpredictable policy enforcement.

[2]: Signing up from a residential Comcast US IP that I'm the only user/client on, using an email address at a domain I own, am the only user on, has been registered for 10+ years, etc.

I had the same experience yesterday. Tried to setup a personal account to access a group and next time I logged in I got the same message about not following their "Community Standards". How is that possible? I didn't even do anything yet! Continued for them to review the ban but I had to stop on the very first step where they asked my phone number since I'll never give them such an information. Now the whole shit is stuck and I cannot even remove my account without giving them my number.

Isn't this just a phishing scam? This should be illegal.

So how do I get my money back, since my Oculus Rift is now completely useless to me unless I allow myself to be spied on?

I purchased these devices with the promise that I would not need a Facebook account, and I do not have one..

You can't, because you can continue to use your device without a Facebook account for two years... which just so happens to be the statutory warranty period in the EU.

Honestly, the number of times an acquiring company has promised "we'll never do this" and then "done this" is so staggering, I think any acquisition promises should be codified with the FTC during the acquisition process as consent decrees or the like, and it should require regulatory permission to roll back. And then anything claimed not listed as such should just be assumed to be a lie.

Yeah, like the last time Facebook "did that"! Merging data from WhatsApp and Facebook in that case. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_17_...

I have a different opinion than most comments here. I love the Oculus Quest. I don’t suggest that anyone waste their time in FB, but needing a FB account to buy VR experiences for the Quest us all right with me.

Off topic, but my favorites are the Star Wars Vader Immortal Trilogy, Racket Ball, and Ping Pong.

I don't know if I think it will work, but it is at least worth it to vote here to remove the FB login: https://oculus.uservoice.com/forums/921937-oculus-quest/sugg...

I don't know anything about uservoice.com, but are they even affiliated with facebook in any way? Why would facebook even care what happens on that site?

This is sad to me. I would like hardware to be hardware and services to be services and I don't want a piece of hardware to require a particular service, particularly when the hardware is of general purpose. I can accept that an XBox wants an XBox live account because an XBox is for one thing, playing games. An Oculus device really ought to just be a display peripheral that is used for communications, for content creation, and yes games. I want something like that to be as open as possible.

‘ Please log in to your national ID account before turning on your vehicle. ‘

This is in jest, but we all know this is what the future holds. Isn’t it interesting how inevitable this all is/seems?

More like "please drink a verification can".

I was expecting Facebook to sell off their VR operations, since they're not scaling up much. Zuckerberg says he's not interested in any business with less than a billion users. Facebook Spaces was a bust. Facebook Horizon didn't even launch. John Carmack went off to work on AI.

If anything, Facebook's VR effort is just there in case someone else comes up with a VR or AR threat to Facebook.

Who says horizon won’t get released? Also Carmack is one person. You’re judging a product due to one person leaving?

How to immediately lose a segment of your customers? Hmmm ah yes, require FB for login! Way to go!

Serious question: do you really think that someone who is enthusiastic about VR would refuse to get the best headset out there because they would have to create an account on some service online? I can’t fathom how that would stop anyone who is truly interested about playing VR. It’s like telling someone they will need a PS account to play the playstation or a Xbox account to play the xbox, they’d probably be fine with that.

Guess the extra PII + the ad space are more valuable to them than a slight decrease in hardware sales.

The notion that you need a cloud login for a piece of computer periphery to work is just unacceptable to me.

"Want to print a page on your locally, USB-Connected printer? Log in at hp.com".

They should shape the Oculus Quest like an Alien Facehugger.

https://www.getdigital.eu/Alien-Facehugger-Plush.html

This TBH

Because there are multiple VR headsets, the only charitable argument for doing this is to market:

‘the occulus is for jumping in a facebook world to visit your family’

I can buy that, if they refund current owners who don’t want that...

>If you’re an existing user and choose not to merge your accounts, you can continue using your Oculus account for two years.

At least this gives me enough time to sell my Oculus and buy from another company.

Isn't it cool how you can dust off your old Nintendo Entertainment Systems and give your kids a blast from the past? Share your childhood with them?

Well, that's a things from the past with hardware it seems. Effective obsolescence through corporate policy.

Yeah 2 years is enough for me to enjoy the Quest and then move on.

I deleted FB for a reason and it will stay that way.

A shame that their shitty growth hacking position will contribute more e-waste to the environment unless the headset can be fully jailbroken.

Yeah, they just lowered the resale value of your hardware... HTC Vive it is then.

Exactly. I deleted my Facebook account years ago. I have an oculus account. Really disappointing though, it means I either have to link that to my girlfriend’s account or sell the oculus within two years.

Realistically I’ll probably sell the quest, stick to buying steam games from now on, and buy a headset from a different company as soon as they get a wireless headset.

> We will take steps to allow you to keep using content you have purchased, though we expect some games and apps may no longer work.

Complain as much as you want about Steam, at least they are a games store and store only.

I don't know why anyone would buy games from the Oculus store.

I would appreciate suggestions on how to regain my Facebook account, shut down without explanation a year ago. Despite its age (15 years) I barely used it, let alone for anything "controversial", but did regularly log into it. I have repeatedly tried to verify my identity by submitting an image of my driver's license, without any response.

I don't want to create a fake Facebook account. I want my own back.

Was there any doubt that this would happen? I mean, it's always the same game: naïve developers with an outstanding product, huge company willing to buy-out technology while lying through their teeth making promises. It's Edison scams Nikola Tesla all over again. I'm baffled that technology pioneers and makers make the same naïve mistakes again and again for over 2 centuries now.

I'm sorry for the following statement. Deal with it. You want shiny new products and technology. You develop new magical technology. You write insightful and groundbreaking scientific papers. Why are you dependent on investors, publishers and giant tech-firms? They exist because of you, because you need them. And they know that. So, please, rid yourself of the illusion that your product/paper can only survive if you give it away to someone with power and influence. You give away power, for money, that's why Facebook, Apple, Google got so powerful in the first place. It's your fault. Deal with it, you can do better than that.

I never have nor never will have a Facebook or Twitter account. Probably not other social media either.

It's bad enough having a Google account and all that encompasses.

It is astonishing that another company would require an account on some other system. Now I don't have a problem with allowing using your Google, Facebook, etc. account as a convenience to authenticate your account on some other service.

HN is social media.

If you're in Australia: Refund your Oculus. If you aren't able to use the product without agreeing to new terms, conditions of licensing agreements - you are within your rights to return your product. Sorry to those who already invested in developing for this platform. Amazon is the main supplier, and they're usually very good for returns.

The larger point here is that there needs to be sensible limits on how many markets or products a single company or group can operate in (among many other regulations). Otherwise the endless acquisitions by the global behemoths will continue right into techno-fascism of one kind or another.

They probably want to cut down on people reselling their accounts with the games in them. That's what I did when I sold my oculus during the quarantine. Why shouldn't I be able to resell my games just because they're digital now?

Fortunately, OpenHMD exists: http://www.openhmd.net/

I don't get what people over here expected when Facebook acquired Oculus, and also don't get why it is so hard to create a throwaway facebook account. No condescension. Just not sure what I am missing in the extreme positions here

I think this is due to Facebook stance to disallow these kind of accounts without a real name. They can block your account if they think you aren't using your real name and have you submit an official ID card or driving license to unlock, process that may take weeks.

Also, forcing people for no real reason to create (or use) an account on a platform they hate is revolting. No everybody wants to use a social network to share with "friends" their gaming habits, or to play local games.

Same here. It feels like an overreaction.

This will probably be when I stop using my Oculus. When I first got my Rift I was super excited about the technology and it generally did not disappoint! I have never been much of a gamer but love the idea of VR. I, however, deleted my facebook account back in 2012 when I realized that it did not contribute anything to my life. Over the years I have had to make the decision between not being able to use a product or creating a facebook account just to use them. Most of those products were mobile apps that required facebook logins. I have always chosen to not use the products and will do so again.

The most annoying part to me is that the only reason Facebook should have had any interest in Oculus (apart from the money of course) is to create a VR/AR social network. Yet here we are 6 years later and no Metaverse.

Cool, so your existing Oculus device is guaranteed to be an expensive brick 2 years from now if you value privacy in any way.

Call me old-fashioned, but does anyone else find it a bit strange that one needs to log in in order to use a display device?

That Oculus had better have some pretty special pixels, if they need a network connection to even be visible.

This is largely about the Oculus Quest, which is a self contained device (i.e. a smartphone in a VR headset)

I'm assume their tethered display devices will still work without an account, assuming you don't want to use their store/apps.

Hy if someone from Oculus reads this requiring a Facebook (or Google) account for login means I will never buy your products.

I also now many other people who think the same.

Goodby, I'm happy I hadn't yet time to but an Oculus product.

Here comes the walled garden. I don't have an Oculus HMD but took the risk of purchasing exclusives from their store and running it via Revive. Looks like those days may be over soon.

If you want to make promises to a community about what will happen to your company after its acquired, tie them to a contract. "If you make Facebook login required for Oculus within the next 20 years you owe me personally an additional $10B." Then you can tell everyone about the line item in the contract and vow to donate half of it to the EFF or rescue.org or whatever floats your boat. Don't make promises your ass can't cash.

I already had to tie it to a Facebook account in order to record video on Quest, unfortunately.

Quest is a great device, but I don't think my next VR headset will be an Oculus.

It’s a super device but I’ll never recommend it again.

Incredible. I deleted my facebook account earlier this year, and I've been looking to get a VR headset. This sort of forces me into the Vive camp, I suppose.

OK. I had planned to get an Oculus Quest for Christmas (since it is reasonably accessible, flexible and probably the best all-around headset out there right now), and how my gut feeling is... No. Just no. I don't want to have Facebook on anything.

I might consider creating a brand new, singleton account to use it, but to be honest my gut reaction is that if they do not have a non-Facebook login, I will just _not_ use it.

The FAQ had nothing about developing for the device.

Facebook TOS prohibits making multiple personal accounts. So one might assume company one works for then provides a company account as using the civilian account is not really a good thing.

If they mandate using the real civilian one then it’s maybe a good reason to finally ”close” it by removing all friends and photos. It’s just a dev account for oculus then.

This is very saddening.

The fact that Facebook had not made this move actually had a significant impact on me in assessing their overall "evil" factor for other services. Now that they have, I'm left owning a Quest and looking for another platform to move to over the next few years. I hope the competition steps up because the Quest has really nailed everything important about VR.

Facebook is dangerously close to collapsing the whole VR industry with this.

When will Carmack jump ships and go to join Valve?

https://www.engadget.com/2019-11-13-john-carmack-agi.html

he's just a consultant now but you can bet he's been disillusioned by all of this.

It seems he will not if this article from 2018 is to be believed. But he is also a Gamer and a reasonable guy, so he might have a change heart.

Link: https://uploadvr.com/john-carmack-i-intend-to-stay-at-facebo...

I’m not sure how we’ve learned to accept “I am altering the deal” from tech companies just because they have the ability to change things remotely.

I mean, what if a furniture company just decided to break into your house, reupholster your couch and remove some of the pillows? (Or I suppose, install a recording device on the bottom?)

What makes me angry is that people won't learn anything from this. The next time something like this happens, people will defend it to the end and call people who warn about it "paranoid" or "cynical".

Corporations are not your friends. Unless it is set in legal writing you can't take their promises at heart value. Even if they set it in legal writing it might mean nothing since they always find a way to worm around it. Their ultimate goal is to fuck you over. Their pricing and profit margin are "take as much as possible without them complaining". Games will get more expensive and it has nothing to do with development costs, it has everything to do "because they can so why wouldn't they".

Corporations are not idiots and they know how to do something subversively and over a long period of time so people don't notice the changes. Look at how microtransactions in games became almost a norm nowadays and future generations won't even see anything wrong with it. Look at how using FOMO and other psychological tricks are actually a "good retention method" now instead of being unethical, people don't even complain against it any more, they complain if it is badly implemented and they don't get enough of it. Companies selling your data are getting less and less backlash over it with people using arguments as "oh well they know everything already, I don't care".

I really hate all of this.

Any news on jailbreaking Oculus devices so that I don't have to play this silly game with hardware I own?

This is a been a problem with Rift from the start. Of course it's 100x worse to require an FB account but regardless, a record is kept of everything you do with the device. VR-Chat 2 hrs day? Virt-A-Mate every night? Using that video app from pornhub? All recorded and sent to facebook.

Anyone remember the site https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/ - it records all the startup acquisition letters.

There should be a sister site that records all the post-acquisition promises that get nuked

Ha this is inevitable. Facebook would not leave the device alone obviously. Oculus opens ups brand new data set and user base to sell ads. Not just that facebook has done something that google couldn't do, they created another successful product beyond their cash cow.

I guess now is the time to look into how to root the console and install a custom ROM in a similar fashion to de-Googling your android phone. There is already enough support in the community for side-loading APKs and the like. Does anyone know of any ways to achieve this?

I know this is a little off... but what would happen if say Alex Jones bought an Oculus device? I mean, they've banned a number of people from the platform.. and if the devices won't work without it, would that be breach of contract/sale?

Great, I can now attempt to sell my Vive Pro because this will surely drive up demand for it.

Not going to repeat the general criticism covered in other comments, but how is that going to work with professional users? Using employees private Facebook accounts in a work setting is somewhere between a really bad idea and impossible.

I've been really interested in purchasing a VR platform but Oculus' Facebook integration has always been a dealbreaker for me.

What are the alternatives for a self-contained VR system? I don't want to have to plug into a PC.

Don't you need to be at least 13 years of age to register a Facebook account?

I believe Oculus' TOS also "requires" you to be 13 or older. Stares at VR Chat

Why do I need to log in to my display device?

You made the mistake of thinking it's your device. It's Facebook's device, you just payed to use it.

I see a VR headset is primarily a piece of hardware. Think of it as a next-gen computer monitor. Users like me expect it to work with any computer or ecosystem (Steam, Windows, Mac, Linux, etc). Thus the outrage..

Hardware tied to some account is ridiculous. Good thing there are projects like OpenHMD and Monado, that aim to implement open runtime for VR and AR devices.

* http://www.openhmd.net/index.php/devices/

* https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/news-and-events/ligh...

Amazing, so if you get banned from Facebook due to one of their dumb rules or algorithms, I'm assuming you can sue them for the value of the device they've just taken from you?

And? Did you think Facebook bought them cuz they thought VR was cool.

I -just- decoupled Facebook from my Oculus account in preparation for deleting Facebook. I guess in two years I make a throw-away account, or better yet, move to Valve's current offering.

I'm super done with this company.

I'm able to play Half Life: Alyx natively on Linux with my Valve Index, as well as other games running through Proton. Not only does Valve support Linux natively; they've been funding development on GFX drivers and things like DXVK. Unfortunately OpenHMD (which would let you use the headset completely decoupled from Steam) doesn't support the Index yet, but it has been worked on and it looks like it just needs someone to finish up that work. Not that you necessarily care about Linux support, but it gives you an idea of how they feel about their products and their community.

The headset itself is expensive but it's the best consumer headset in existence right now. I can play for hours (depending on the game) without feeling like I need to stop. There's no single thing that's dramatically better than other headsets, but just about everything about it is at least somewhat better. Comfort, tracking, visuals, adjustability, and so on.

Anyway, Valve is just night-and-day different from Facebook. In fact they're the ones maintaining support for the Rift on Steam, not the other way around. Valve wants VR to be an open platform, and Facebook wants it to be a part of Facebook, entirely owned and controlled by them.

Same plan here. The Quest I got earlier this year is my first and will be my last Oculus device. Hopefully someone else makes a comparable headset soon (comparable = full wireless PCVR capability, like what the Quest + Virtual Desktop offers), ideally at a comparable price point as well... how hard can it be, the Quest is 1.5 years old by now, there's gotta be something at least similar in the works somewhere.

Good move, Valve are gamers at heart while Facebook is out to get your data and make as much money possible from it.

Valves VR looks awesome!

Yah, guess i'm going to be selling my rift, or at least re-purposing it. Not that it matters much, i'm already unsupported as I refused to upgrade to win10 on the machine it was attached to.

PS, oculus has been the only piece of hardware I've purchased in the past few years where the drivers caused a blue screen. Thats ignoring all the other bullshit problems with the driver stack they have that can't even consistently enable a pile of USB devices.

As companies grow, they lose touch with smaller market segments. I see that Facebook has grown to the point that it has lost touch with it's ENTIRE oculus market. (Who buys Oculus? Cutting-edge techheads, who often don't like social media). I expect that Oculus will die a slow death unless some exec sees some important metric going down and tries to save it. But Facebook is huge, so saving Oculus is unlikely to make a dent in financials.

How much longer until we need to login to use create-react-app

That would be difficult to enforce, since React is open-source. It'd take ten seconds for someone to fork it.

Anyone care to guess how long before this happens to Instagram and/or Whatsapp accounts? Could be a year or could be 5 years -- it's not if, just when.

It's good to know before the updated Oculus Quest comes out.

Personally it doesn't bother me immensely... however it's annoying that I'd have to review, check and double check all the privacy settings before using the device as I don't expect any of the defaults to keep my activity private.

I'll probably opt for using my Oculus account another 2 years, at which point I'll likely have bought another headset.

Talking of login. I’ve just tried to login to EBay app using Google authentication. I have 2 step verification turned on. It now specifically requires gmail app to access the verification code. It no longer supports Apple mail app. Is this a sick joke?

The only way around it was to send the verification code via tex. I'm so concerned now that Google will only send verification codes to Android device in the future.

Sometimes I wish Facebook should at-least try to prove us wrong. These are trying times with everyone being paranoid about how their data is mishandled, shared, used and for good reason. What is so difficult in giving users the option to connect their Facebook accounts if they wish because lets be honest so users might just want to but making it mandatory is only going to hurt the gaming community.

I have been recommending the Quest but that’s all over.

I haven't used FB in a while, but are there any real barriers stopping people from making fake/alt FB accounts for this purpose? If not, that seems like a pretty easy way to just not care about any of this to me. (Or was there a theory that FB wasn't already logging everything you did on an Oculus before they started making logins mandatory?)

Pretty much exactly what I was afraid of when they were first acquired, and what they initially promised they wouldn't do. Looks like the success of the Quest has emboldened the reinholders. That as of this posting, 100% of the comments are a variation of 'WTF', it's pretty telling they felt they could get away with it regardless.

Have a Rift S, left FB several years ago, now forced to go back in the future. I hate you FB. Will not buy Oculus again.

I made an FB account just for Oculus apps that need it. It has no personal information about me except email address.

The comments on the original article seem to indicate that only facebook thought this was a good change haha.

I still have a hard time understanding what kind of value can be extracted from user data.

Who uses this data? For what purpose? How can this data give an edge to make money elsewhere?

Is there a real relationship between data collection and ability to sell more things and increase profits? I'm not seeing it.

That's wonderful. I tried to create an account on FB last week. I don't know why, but it got suspended immediately. Tried again with different info - suspended.

I didn't even wanted a FB account in the first place, but now I wonder why I can't do that

Everyone, I think it's time that we acknowledge that Facebook may have a slight tendency to deceptively invade users privacy and never ever keep any promise it makes. Nothing to worry about but just ya know, good to be aware of. /s

Kid who didn't know better changes mind when new information is realised.

Not worth vilifying. Not worth accolades for basic rational thought.

Palmer is meh. As other comments have pointed out, don't waste energy on the scapegoat.

Complain about the people in control - Facebook.

I’ve been wanting to buy an Oculus Quest since lockdown started, but I’ve been having trouble finding one in stock for a reasonable price. I guess I’m glad I didn’t succeed in purchasing one, and now I won’t be buying one at all.

I don’t have a Facebook account. My birthday wishlist just got one item shorter :(

Why do I need to "Log in" to a VR headset?

The tech industry has gotten rather silly.

I have invested heavily learning react and react native and i don't have(or want) facebook account. I will remind this incident in the future before investing time in any thing related to facebook.

I'm curious -- I have a Facebook account, but I have the app platform disabled.

It seems that the app platform may be used for managing logins on third party sites. Are they likely to require it for Oculus devices?

Welp I won’t be buying any future Oculus devices. I’ve got a Rift and enjoy it but I have no intentions of creating a Facebook account. I deleted mine back in like 2010-2011 and haven’t looked back.

This was not required before? When I got my Oculus Quest a at the end of June I found no other way to log in but create a facebook account. This account is now only used for the Oculus Quest.

Wait.. Some games are rated 7 years, my kid is old enough to play the games and currently has his own account but he is not allowed to be on Facebook. How will this work?

Next VR headset will not be Oculus.

Saw that coming. As a user of the original Oculus Rift headset, I will definitely be upgrading to a non-Oculus headset within the next 2 years (before Facebook accounts become mandatory).

I just bought a new gaming PC powerful to be usable with an Oculus. I have some cash handy from a stock sale as well. I was really considering one.

That's never going to happen now.

As soon as I needed a Facebook account to use the social features, I bailed. Thankfully I was fortunate enough to buy a Valve Index. SteamVR is a much nicer platform anyways

What this even mean? Oculus device is a hardware, has some drivers, supporting software, and applications. What exactly requires user to login in order to work? Drivers?

I guess there are still other brands who sell headsets :/

I'm actually surprised this wasn't a requirement before now. I'd always assumed that Oculus was really just a new way to "onboard users."

Well, as someone who has been social media free since 2015 this really just encourages my feeling that I must not need one. (Even though I want some VR setup )

Good thing the Reverb G2 is right around the corner!

I very nearly bought an Oculus Quest recently due to some glowing reviews, despite my strong anti-FB feelings. So very glad I hesitated.

Glad I bought my HTC Vive Cosmos. I was going to wait for the Oculus to be back in stock, but I didn't. I gave up FB 6 years ago.

"If you are an existing user and choose not to merge your accounts, you can continue using your Oculus account for two years."

Phew

Sounds like Facebook doesn't know how to make money with Oculus unless they require people to log into Facebook to use it.

Welp...I now have an Oculus Rift S for sale.

Guess I have 2 years until my Rift goes in the bin. Hopefully there'll be something even nicer out by then.

I'm tired of saying fuck Facebook on HN threads, but man, fuck Facebook.

If I ever move my racing sim rig to VR, it's definitely not going to be an Oculus.

We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Palmer Luckey hadn't persevered and created the Oculus.

Zero chance I'd buy an Oculus now.

I don't see what the fuss is about. Why shouldn't Facebook try to provide the best user experience possible? We live in an increasingly connected world, so this tight integration between different products is absolutely critical to a positive user experience. Would people complain if any other company added Facebook login to their product? No!

I assumed Facebook had already done this. Users are so naive for assuming it would never happen.

I knew this was coming eventually, but I am definitely selling my Rift after this announcement.

I just bought an Oculus Quest and now feel bad about it. Sadly there are no real alternatives.

Alright, then I’ll be selling this Rift S and getting an Index after all. Fuck Facebook.

Need to log in to Facebook to use VR.

It just doesn't even make sense.

FB is too entrenched in our lives. And for what?

What a trip this has been from the Kickstarter to its acquisition to this situation.

I was looking forward to purchasing the next generation of Oculus gear. Oh well.

I was waffling between VR setups, looks like I can take Oculus off the list.

Good that i bought a index.

Cool, this makes choosing my next VR headset upgrade easier: not Oculus.

Why? Even Apple doesn't require an Apple ID to use their devices.

This looks like a great opportunity for pine64 to make a wireless 6DOF headset (Quest clone)

They already ship a mobile phone. https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

I think there is a lot of benefit from unifying various identities and identity stacks. You can put all the investment in improving one identity platform instead of trying to maintain a user identity for every acquisition you make.

I'm shocked that anyone is surprised by this. It was immediately obvious that this move was the only reason for Facebook to buy Oculus in 2014. If you fell for promises, well, hopefully this has been a learning experience.

I am going to sell my Rift and buy a Vive, HTC from here out!

So glad I never bought an oculus. Is anyone really suprised?

I guess I know what company to not buy any VR hardware from.

A little misleading since apparently the Facebook account is only acting as a replacement for an Oculus account. It's not like they're forcing Facebook logins on a device that required no logins.

That kills the possibility of selling your account.

Making a lot of expensive bricks just like that.

I just changed my mind about getting an Oculus.

yeap, there goes my changes of having an Oculus (never had a facebook account and won't)... Guess one less option then...

No Facebook, and therefore no oculus needed..

Andrew Reisse is rolling in his grave right now. This is disgusting and not what he wanted and disrespectful to everything he worked toward. I am ashamed of Oculus.

It's completely expected since acquisition but FUCK. The problem is that there's little competitor for standalone VR and platform's openess.

People will bitch and complain, but at the end of the day, there’s no better device for untethered VR that you can take and setup anywhere.

Damn. Best alternative to the Rift S?

This is effectively ransomware. If you do not agree with the new eula Facebook will deactivate your otherwise working hardware.

Well. Another lost customer here.

Please excuse my lame pun:

> foc-u-lus

I wonder if this is even legal in the EU, given the GDPR laws that prohibit sending customer data to the USA.

Software is soft

Don't like

Who cares?

Death to Facebook

TLDR;

Facebook to Oculus Users: Go f* yourself.

This is my biggest fear: no longer being able to create individual accounts that are not Oauth'd through social media. I don't think my bank will require facebook any time soon, but I hope laws are in place to prevent it when the time comes. Sen. Wyden, I hope you're listening.

I have an Oculus Go and pretty much only use it for Skybox and nothing else. I hope I can just disable all updates and keep using it without connecting it to a FB account. I haven't even bought anything on the store.

I guess it might be time to look at FOSS alternatives for these devices, just to keep basic functionality. I wonder if the bootloaders are locked.

I was considering buying a VR headset,Oculus just dropped their name out of the hat

I was starting to look into VR and I guess this crosses Oculus off the list. I don't intend to ever have a Facebook account.

Honest question: you bought a device that depends on an "app store" to work. What exactly did you expect?

-- from someone waiting for VR to become a commodity hardware, like a monitor.

@dang, fix typo in headline? Faceboook.

Is this a surprise to literally anyone? If you buy into a corporate platform you get a corporate platform.

Make fake facebook account. All problems solved.

Are the devices any good?

Nice information

Fun fact: most of the people need neither Facebook nor Oculus.

Last time I created a fresh account I got banned. Didn't use any VPN, my email was a fresh Gmail address and I didn't use any fake picture or send any friend request.

I'm amazed so many people care. Not having a Facebook account for me is social suicide. Helps that Messenger is a very good messaging app and Facebook the main site is a good timewaster. Make a throwaway one if you really despise Facebook so much.

Just ordered my Oculus Quest from Costco a week ago, and it's scheduled for delivery today. And I have no problem using Facebook account. Yeah, my data will be used for ads, so what? How is that such a big deal for some people to sell the device they otherwise enjoy?

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