An example of how brands build fake reviews on Amazon
reddit.com
reddit.com
He goes as far as reviewing everything he doesn't buy there with less than 3 stars so his account isn't suspicious.
Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be, not only helping shady companies but also hurting legit ones.
Reviews - particularly on Amazon - are meaningless. The cat-and-mouse game has gone so far that as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating. Buying from an unknown brand is a crapshoot. Buying from a known brand on Amazon isn't much better.
And it makes me wonder how long these black hat practices are going to be useful to sellers. Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this point.
I've been an Amazon customer for more than 20 years. Yes, both the 5-star reviews and 1-star reviews can be gamed. Many 5-stars reviews are fake because of bribery. Many 1-star reviews are from competitors trying to hurt their rivals.
That said, I still find Amazon reviews useful if I read the texts instead of depending on the number of stars. I go to the 3-star and 2-star reviews and read the specific complaints customers are writing about. Some reviewers also post useful photos.
For example, I needed to buy a guest bed for COVID quarantine so I looked for "air mattress" on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=air+mattress
Most of those have 5-star reviews. I ignore that and simply read the texts. After digesting some reviews, I learn that all air mattresses regardless of brand suffer from leakage (usually after the 30-day return period). Some recommended getting a foldable foam mattress as an alternative to totally avoid the issues with leaks and broken air pumps. That's what I ended up buying and it was the Amazon reviews that steered me away from air mattresses.
Also 5 star reviews can be honest and useful; examine the text for credibility then look at other reviews by the same person. If they're all 5 star then you most likely have a stinker, but some measured criticism and other, lower starred reviews may show validity.
Amazon’s reviews are like old Yahoo’s news comment streams (same as YouTube today). I’d like to think average/sane human beings do not spend their time compulsively hanging out at such joints.
The best sensible thing Amazon could do is list the number of repeat customers against the number of sell. That would be honest and fair.
Sites like Amazon need the review layer to substitute the physical contact of brick and mortar that they removed. Pretty common story by now - instead of paying employees in stores, they crowd source the value for free, and we're happy to go along since we get lower prices in the bargain.
That's a win-win eliminating a bullshit job.
I can get useful insights from reviews so I also like to contribute back if I find something worth mentioning.
Reading reviews without contributing them is a form of freeloading.
I write a few reviews because if something is particularly good or useful, or very bad, I want others to benefit from that.
Now say you got something good. Again, you have to first eliminate your subjectivity. Why should the world care if you like something? But you want to help others make a good decision. Fine. Let them ask questions genuinely and then you can answer. Platform should let that happen because otherwise vendor would never let others answer on their behalf. QA should be the only place for interaction. Question should only be posed by potential customers. Answers, only by known customers.
Crowd sourced reviews are first and foremost subjective. They spawn either a fan boy syndrome or ‘I’m going to get’ you syndrome. If not either of them then they have spawned a whole new underground market of their own. Indeed, they have not proven to naturally balance the real and legitimate market; otherwise, they wouldn’t have been gamed. But Amazon does have QA alongside reviews. This makes it obvious that reviews are their cash cows using/abusing human psychology - of greed and gratification.
So how do you tell? IMHO, it’s not the word phrase, but the word count. If you’re saying too many ‘just nice’ things —repetitive — you prolly want something.
Also, Amazon is frigging annoying about how much they ask you to comment. When And if I do it’s usually terse.
Yeah. People who should kill themselves – according to the late, great Bill Hicks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUd6ARKcPS0
Upvoted in any case.
Sometimes.... :)
You don't look for that <i> Verified purchase </i> text ?
If you're not being sarcastic...
Those "Verified Purchase" reviews can also be faked by manufacturers/sellers reimbursing the credit-card payment of the Amazon shopper.
Example: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon...
Well, I got contacted by the seller, offering me $20 to take down the review. I ignored it.
Then a few weeks later, they upped the offer. And in response, I downed the stars.
Last I heard from them, they were offering me $70 to take down the review. For something that cost under $15.
Amazon itself doesn't help either. I bought something (a food item) from Amazon, and it was nowhere close to the quality in the photographs or description. I wrote a review, describing how the actual item was of much lower quality than expected. Amazon refused to post my review! And I've been an Amazon customer for nearly 20 years!
And this really is a decent biz model. I mean, free items, just sell them for 50% and you can make a living.
Scale this up using multiple amazon accounts, multiple addresses.
The market is big enough so that you can make a living out of this, I'm sure.
And your x2 multiplier makes it even easier!
But other than that, reviews are at best useless or at worst criminally misleading.
And since not buying is the safer choice anyways, the existence of fake negatives isn't that much of a problem.
I understand why someone would think that, and I do it myself too, but do we have evidence that it's true?
An example product with adjusted ratings:
https://www.fakespot.com/product/quickie-bulldozer-24-inch-m...
> Our engine has profiled the reviewer patterns and has determined that there is high deception involved.
I wish that were true, but I'm afraid the vast bulk of consumers are still astonishingly unaware. People who discuss Amazon on HN are a tiny drop in a very large ocean.
No cheaper than elsewhere, Amazon is chaos now.
For some reason, all the products with fake reviews hang around the 4.4-4.7 rating mark. They're seldom 4-stars or lower
I went back to the old brick and mortar for my protein powder (though I’d also be willing to buy online from non-marketplace sources that take ownership of the supply chain).
Again, I love Amazon. But if they refuse to take responsibility for whatever arrives at my house no way is it going into my mouth...
You can pay for good reviews, but legitimate complaints might be removed.
The official Vine club hands out 5s on a suspicious scale as well - and even though the reviewers are marked by the little Vine badge, it looks more like a verification check mark than an ad disclosure, likely boosting the signal instead of dampening it.
It seems a bit like complaining that a surgeon that does autopsies doesn't raise the dead.
I wish we could figure out some incentive for people -- both individually and corporately -- to behave less selfishly, but it seems to be a hard problem.
EDIT Here is the article
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon...
And the corresponding HN discussion
[1] https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Type-C-USB-Male-Cable/dp...
TBH, I think reviews, more than code, wants to be free. Amazon do a fine service providing a platform for product reviews, but I worry all this data now belongs to a private biased entity. Open reviews, anyone?
Amazon's fast and affordable shipping is addicting, but I've nonetheless steadily shifted my purchasing patterns away from Amazon.
Instead I tend to search Amazon (and Google, etc) to see what options are available, and buy them elsewhere if possible. Ideally directly from high-quality brands' websites, or alternately from smaller, specialized online retail outlets I trust more. Both tend to be more of a passion project and really care about what they're making and selling.
I may not receive the item as fast, but I've adjusted to that and realize in 99% of cases I don't really need that instant gratification.
In fact, fast shipping instant gratification seems more likely to tempt me into un-needed impulse purchases, and I'm better off without it. I make more planned and strategic purchases when I have to wait a little longer to receive them. Better for my personal financial planning and budgeting, and control of my lizard brain response.
On year later, she received an email threatening a defamation lawsuit unless she takes down the review. Looking at the seller reviews, it looks like this wasn't an isolated incident as other people were complaining. Obviously, this doesn't hold legally. But we are left with the feeling that they might still try to challenge us legally at any time, which is a really unpleasant feeling.
They don't? OK, that tells us something.
Such terminal punishments will be worse for the platform as a whole.
I would imagine most of these communications are happening over email. Maybe even over Amazon's own messaging system.
The most elegant solution would of course be sybil free identities, ... but how do we allow for companies to possess an email adress or identity? by the concept of capacities ("hoedanigheid" in dutch): we would need to formalize the concept of communicating in a specific capacity such as saying something as a citizen, saying something in the capacity as a superior role in a company to someone with an inferior role etc...
Consider those superiors, doctors, ... occasionally (or systematically) abusing their power.
For example a citizen is entirely free to ask another citizen for a sexual favor, but depending on jurisdiction a superior can not ask this of a subjugated employee. Either the favor is explicitly asked in the role of a citizen, in which case the receiver can safely discard the message without getting accused of disobeying a superior, or the favor is explicitly asked in the capacity of a superior in which case a crime may have been commited and the receiver can demonstrate it.
This is a relatively simple example but for the greyer areas it localizes which people in a company actually crossed the line and forces all employees regardless of level to think and consider the legality of what they are asking from or being asked by another employee. For example who decided to fake emissions tests at some car company?
Just disallow it. Buyers won't care.
I suspect they get around certain TOS violations by saying "1 to 5 stars on Amazon."
Mpow makes cheap waterproof wireless earphones. I've bought 2 pairs, the first gave up after a few years of brutal workouts.
They sound horrible, but they are waterproof and cheap. They have the $20 workout bluetooth headset market on lockdown.
Why would they even bother to pay for reviews?
I tried to leave a review with what I said above, but it was flagged and removed. I got an email that it didn't meet review requirements.
Amazon is simply cashing in on its reputation. Once it’s gone you might as well buy from the Chinese source. People used to search stores for things they’d buy cheaper on Amazon. Now people are searching Amazon for things they’ll buy cheaper Alibaba.
Personally, I’ve already shifted to buying DIY tools and supplies directly from China. I found the quality good enough. Some of the industrial consumables you can’t even buy retail in the US. For the high end stuff I buy direct from outlets. I don’t trust Amazon with that either. I could see a future where Amazon gets squeezed from both ends.
I've done returns on Aliexpress before. I didn't have to send anything back and I got a 100% refund.
That's especially apparent for stuff like USB-cables, where you have a hard-time finding (in the worst search experience on this planet) the few cost-competitive offers (on the marketplace, and they are ridiculous - like 1.5€ delivered with prime the next day). For "Amazon recommended", topsellers or their basic line, it's basically that if you need more than 1 cable (or buy one of the 3-packs...) you can order at a speciality store, pay 6€ shipping and 2€ for the cables (in much better quality - still marginally more expensive for one-off and "I need it now"-things, but as both things are not really sustainable, I consider this a bad habit as well....).
One good thing that french amazon has - they can deliver to a network of 'post boxes' or compatible small shops to pick up the item usually within a week. That's basically about it, things ain't cheaper, and when ordering from china I don't have that doubt about quality - it is normally on the level of payment.
These days, aliexpress and similar fill the needs.
I think we will soon see large Chinese companies establishing themselves in Europe and take market share from both local stores and Amazon.
Many large sellers on AliExpress have already started delivering from their European warehouses.
> I don't buy anything I'll put in/on/around my body on Amazon (e.g. Vitamin supplements, Lotion/face sunscreen, Protein powder)
Even if the brand is legit, I'm still not 100% confident that Amazon's co-mingling stock and switcheroos that can happen in the long supply chain will result in a "real" thing arriving at my door
Fake tent stakes or juggling balls? Who cares.
Camping grill or coffee grinder? Not taking the chance when propane/fire or odd chemicals touching my drink could be involved.
Here’s the description for context:
“ omega 3 fish oil supplements fatty EPA DHA omega3 burpless capsules supplement pills soft gels men best vitamins omega-3 wild-caught natural women pure humans no burp small extra strength mercury-free fish oil”
If you buy this without reading everything in the product description, I’m sorry.
I like to consider things this way...
At your local grocery store how vigilant are you that your orange juice carton might actually be filled with rat poison? Never crossed your mind? Very remote chance? Why? Because one item in a million is inspected by...who exactly? Think about how you'd feel if you found out one day that your grocery store actually gets its stock from a warehouse where sometimes cartons of OJ are replaced by rat poison on purpose by someone looking to make a buck at someone else's expense. You'd probably feel at least a little violated or betrayed. Aren't we all glad that we don't have to worry about shit like that at the grocery store? We shouldn't have to worry about shit like that from Amazon.
Why is that?
IMHO, they're too positive. If you scroll down, there's a lot of negative factors, but the above the fold summary is quite cheerful.
The FakeSpot page is much clearer.
https://www.fakespot.com/product/premium-omega-3-fish-oil-su...
But given the untrustworthy nature of reviews in general, I hope there is some method to capture genuine reviews, filter out the noise and filter up the relevant ones.
Perhaps tech like blockchains could help here, but their use is limited to anonymous identity. Its easy to create enough accounts to influence the system.
The only feasible way seems to have direct user accounts that are tied to actual people, something like on facebook. But that is a privacy issue.
Eventually, e-Commerce might devolve into brands and off brands, where the platform becomes irrelevant and other forms of advertising and marketing take control.
Inability to easily create multiple IDs for 1 person, One ID linked to one individual, inability to easily use another persons ID, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c4mCXK9kIU
The people who provide the text templates for these bots really miss creativity. After reading just one or two you realize what's going on. It would be really easy to make them look more authentic just by not going over the top.
Definitely not cheap and has issues of its own, but worth checking out if, like me you thought it wasn't useful before.
Honestly any service with reviews can be faked.
Note that this won't work on sites where the seller can delay publishing your review (e.g AliExpress).