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Comment by peteforde | Hacker News Reader

Sure: what would you like to know?

Off the top of my head:

- easier to find the will to exercise - less cravings for junk food - depression symptoms occur 80% less - back pain frequently forgets to manifest - I feel more optimistic

It's not all roses, though. I am not traditionally employable because I work unpredictable hours. It can be hard to schedule doctor's appointments, for example.

The hardest thing is syncing with my SO. She's actually inclined to keep similar hours, but has a 9-5 job. Still, this hasn't been a huge issue.

I don't think it could work if you had young children.

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I'm going to join in as shifting your sleep pattern by 3 hours a night, if I've read it right, sounds (without meaning to be at all rude) a bit crazy.

How did you decide to choose this pattern? Did you hear about it or was it part of a process, or did you stumble across it?

I can appreciate how it might sound unsane if you've never dealt with sleep issues (jealous!) or read a ton about it. Ask away, but I did cover a bunch of these elsewhere in the thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24185624

That's really interesting. I'm also jealous because I've had terrible sleep problems to the point that your choice of craziness would look less crazy! :) I've found that if I go to sleep within the same 15 minute window every night then I will wake up some time within the 3 minutes up to my alarm going off, often just a few seconds before.

If I don't then my internal clock will immediately shift later and it's incredibly hard to follow the "old" pattern. I think I can get away with one late night every so often but never two. Right now I'm stable but it's very hard to convince the people around me that it's what I need, even though they've seen the effects of not doing it. I believe it's in the same realm as smoking or alcoholism, where if you have a problem then most people will say "why not stop drinking then?" as if that's some great insight. "Just go to sleep" isn't particularly helpful.

And then, of course, they'll fall asleep with no problem and complain if they feel crap after one bad night :/

Really glad to hear you're feeling good on it! I hope it stays that way.

More so what time do you go to bed and wake up, etc?

I go to sleep 20 hours after I wake up, and I wake up 7 hours later.

So if I’m understanding correctly, do you end up doing a full 24 hour rotation every 8 days? Very interesting - how do you plan your week?

It can be hard, TBH - I actively minimize distractions anyhow, but this is on a different level. It's probably not for everyone.

That all said, statistically I'm much more likely to be awake than not during the day, so many folks would have no idea. Usually there's only one day a week where I'm essentially going to sleep right when everyone else is starting their day.

I'm lucky that my daily shift is 3h - two REM cycles - as it maps nicely onto the 24h schedule everyone else is on, most of the time. 1.5h or 4.5h would be really confusing to me.

I have a non-24 hour circadian rhythm and I think they are usually if not always closer to 24 hours than to that, but it is an interesting idea and as someone who also has bad insomnia I can see the appeal. However, one thing to keep in mind for anyone who doesn't already have Non-24 is that it may be that Non-24 has both a genetic aspect and a trigger and trying something like that could be the trigger that prevents you from sleeping on a 24 hour schedule again. I encourage everyone to be careful with your circadian rhythm since messing it up causes major problems (in my case, I get the strong sense that there is an issue with syncrhonization and different parts of my body shift at different rates and some parts synchronize with the sun). Also, some of us with Non-24 find it harder get to sleep during the day and I'd guess that would be the case for many people on this type of schedule (it might not be possible to keep a by-the-numbers schedule).

Some good points!

I am not a doctor, but I have spent a lot of time in sleep clinics and reading about sleep. I am also quite familiar with the huge number of issues surrounding the relatively recent book "Why We Sleep" which is essentially considered partially-debunked at this point. I feel about that book the way most of us would feel about a book declaring that people who code or are interested in startups are missing opportunities to play more football.

My rhythm seems to be off by two REM cycles eg 1.5hx2, and I actually find 3h pretty easy to manage as it loops around every 7-8 days.

I don't have any trouble falling asleep during the day, because I own a https://nitehood.ca - the discount code is August15 BTW.

> I don't have any trouble falling asleep during the day, because I own a https://nitehood.ca

Did you end up with this randomly or do you find it better than regular sleep mask?

I don't know about random per se... I admit that I saw it on Instagram after being frustrated by 3 sleep masks that would just come off while I was sleeping.

I love the NiteHood. It's objectively awesome in terms of function, density and even material choice. 10/10

I agree with at least most of the criticism of "Why We Sleep" and haven't read the book. My concerns about messing up circadian rhythms have nothing to do with the book (other than that some of the advice in the book seems to encourage some people to mess up their circadian rhythm). I am disabled due to sleep issues and have met a few others who also have severe issues due to circadian issues (some people with Non-24 do fine if they can keep a Non-24 schedule). It is at least possible that for some people experimenting with a non-24 hour schedule could cause a permanant Non-24 condition so anyone considering trying such a schedule should be aware of the potential risk.

For me (and I'd guess many others) a sleep mask does not make it much easier to sleep during the day. I would need to have a dark environment for a while before sleep. Some people can set up a room like that but I can't at this point. This is not to say that I never get to sleep during the day, but I stay up longer when I go to sleep during the day, even if I have been awake for a while. Some people with Non-24 have the same reaction I do and others don't.

Honestly, that sounds like hell. I'm so sorry that you're going through this.

I am very lucky that I am able to control my environment - I have blackout curtains on my bedroom window, which is where I work.

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