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Comment by momokoko | Hacker News Reader

I think you have to realize this is San Francisco specifically. Not the entire Bay Area. A lot of people worked in places south of San Francisco and then commuted south because SF is basically the only city nearby that isn’t awful. But now that everything is closed down, all the good parts of SF are generally gone. Who wants to live in a cramped apartment with too many roommates and no yard? The trade was always that there were a lot of fun and interesting things to do and interesting people to meet. All of that side of the bargain is gone. With everything closed, most people would rather live in another part of the Bay Area where you can at least have a small yard and more space indoors.

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I know this is only anecdotal evidence, but whenever I do have to go into SF for meetings, it's not a pleasant experience. I do feel for the suffering that is evident in the city. But having to literally step carefully over syringes and flecks of human feces everywhere makes my trips to SF a health hazard. Once I was about to sit down on BART when I noticed a syringe left jabbed into the seat cushion, with blood still visible inside the syringe's barrel. Had I sat down, I may have contracted a blood-borne disease.

I’ve never been to SF, how often can one find abandoned syringes on the street or in public transport?

I encounter abandoned syringes and feces in the street multiple times daily. I’ve seen syringes in public transport less frequently, once or twice in 5 years here.

I saw more used syringes on the street in my year living in SF than I have the rest of my life combined.

> A lot of people worked in places south of San Francisco and then commuted south because SF is basically the only city nearby that isn’t awful.

I agree, but I have found it so interesting that so many people on the peninsula or south bay are completely fearful of San Francisco! Its the opposite view of what you wrote.

More of a classic "everything is scary except my suburb" misconception. I've seen it in other places before but I found it so surprising from so many people in San Mateo, Redwood City etc

I've had different experiences every time I've gone to the city. During my last visit, we steered clear of market and spent a nice day in Mission/Castro/Japantown. On one of my previous visits, I had a guy threaten me. The city is a mixed bag. The only other west coast city I can compare it to is Seattle. Outside of SF and Seattle, every west coast city I've been to has been almost 100% peaceful, safe and enjoyable.

The only time I've ever heard of a friend getting mugged was in SF.

A unique thing about SF is that its economic centers and tourist markets are where vagrancy and degeneracy are most tolerated and heaviest in density.

Its easy not to know that its not where to go.

Trendy transplants hang out on Valencia St in The Mission and towards Delores Park. Or on Union St in the Marina and towards the water. Or on the lawn in the Presidio. Or at Ocean beach. You will never see any strife, out of sight out of mind. These areas are still doing great for socializing and a brief escape. There are quite a few others places as well of course but I dont think I really want peninsula and south bay suburbanites coming to them lol.

Visitors are corralled into areas by Union Square, Embarcadero, Market St and the worst parts of SOMA. Its logical to want to go there but its a mistake. Commuters and sports fans are only familiar with that area, along with the parking garages being plentiful. But for a recreational visit, use this post as a guide.

I suppose it's also extremely reasonable to not want to live in close quarters with too many roommates you don't actually know all that well who may or may not be adhering to the same level of safety as you want to.

But if that was it, why isn't NYC seeing the same? Are apartments actually bigger there or more commonly single occupant or something?

NYC is absolutely seeing the same. Many people went to homes upstate and will not come back. Rents are falling even if some of it is masked with hidden rebates (no broker fee, free months).

It is going to be starkest probably in San Francisco though because 1. Rents were actually higher there to begin with (though they had begun to deteriorate) 2. The employers there are weighted more heavily toward companies able and willing to embrace remote work (that is, tech companies).

NYC is a ghost town compared to a year ago. There’s about 5% availability in Manhattan right now compared to about 1%-1.5% usually.

Real estate markets around the city (NJ, CN) are on fire right now. People that were maybe thinking about getting more space now have the choice made for them.

When you calculate the tax money you save it opens a world of possibilities. And it’s not like NJ or CN are low tax places! Lots of people moving to Texas and Florida as well I’ve read.

But the asking rent is down ~15% y/y all through peninsula, so I don't think this argument really holds up.

People are definitely moving away from the South Bay too. It’s not only San Fransisco. We recently renewed our lease (apartment) in Cupertino and the lease went down 19%. Plenty of complexes nearby went down similar in price and even offer one month free rent.

SF is basically the only city nearby that isn’t awful

Can you expound on this for someone who does not live in that area?

A large portion of jobs in the bay area are in Silicon Valley which is south of SF and comprised of cities like San Jose, Palo Alto, and Sunnyvale. For someone seeking the amenities of a global city like SF, none of the other cities in the bay area come remotely close. They're all generally quiet, clean, suburban locales except San Jose which is a sprawling mid-sized city but still nothing like SF for someone wanting a world class city.

You know how you can tell a city is world class? When you don't have to tell people it's a world class city.

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