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Comment by ravenstine | Hacker News Reader

Putting any valid criticism of this article aside, anecdotally, I know a bunch of people who have either left or are in the process of leaving California in the last few months. One of them just left SF. In other news, one of my cousins is seriously working towards moving out of NY. 3 of my team members have moved to smaller parts of the country.

Simply speaking, my gut tells me this isn't just about San Francisco. They don't have a monopoly on overexpensive housing, homelessness, drug problems, feces, violence, or taxes.

Again, anecdotal, but I think the exodus is real, and it's not hard to see why. We're going to soon hit a point where apologists for cities will no longer be able to defend them. I would love to live in a city if it didn't both punish success and fail to help those whom are truly in need.

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>Simply speaking, my gut tells me this isn't just about San Francisco.

It's not. I live in the Northeast and it seems like every day on the local news there is a story about businesses and residents fleeing NYC. 5 months of WFH (and knowing a lot of people personally touched by Covid) is starting to reshape a lot of attitudes about what is really important in life. It's also opened a lot of eyes to the fact that company culture and organizational inertia were the main impediments to remote work, not technology. I don't think the genie can be put back in the bottle.

NYC being a large city, the story is slightly more nuanced than that. There has definitely been a large exodus from Manhattan and Brooklyn, but less so from Queens (where I live, and which was much less tech-centric even before the pandemic).

That being said, I do agree that the genie probably can't be put back in the bottle and there will be an at least semi-permanent shift of people away from cities.

And, as many other articles have noted, there is a danger of death spirals as in the past. Transit systems are having serious problems. City services in general are going to have very serious budget issues. And so forth. If you now have to buy a car to live in the city will you still stay?

>If you now have to buy a car to live in the city will you still stay?

Interesting take. It seems like a domino too far, but it could conceivably contribute to a collapse that was already going to happen.

This is a real and global trend. Same thing is happening in European capitals right now. People, especially singles and young couples, are wondering why they are paying a huge portion of their income in rent in order to be in the city, when they can't go out anyway. Almost all big companies are working remote. If you are not too tied down, it's obvious to make the move.

I don't think most people realize how similar the dynamics are in developed economies across the world, and, consequently, what a big impact this, along with everything else going on, could have on the global economy.

For sure, the immediate cause of the issue is the corona virus, but a large economic impact might not be easy to just roll back, even after that (hopefully) is resolved.

> when they can't go out anyway.

I live in such an European capital city (Bucharest) and in fact we can go out to meet our friends and the like, outdoor restaurants and coffee shops are open (they have been since the beginning of June), parks are open. Yes, concerts are still heavily restricted (some do happen, but only outdoors and with a limited number of spectators) and of course you cannot attend any sporting event just yet, but that's pretty manageable.

What are you talking about? There is nothing of the sort happening...

> I would love to live in a city if it didn't both punish success and fail to help those whom are truly in need.

I’ve never heard this put so succinctly, or I can relate to it more now.

I like dating “spiritual” women but I have seriously considered living in a shittier place in SF so they didn't feel uneasy or “misaligned” as they say. I have literally heard “makes me suspicious” [0]. Working professionals love the place/decor/view though but they aren’t as fun.

There are self-proclaimed communists in SF and coastal east bay towns. Its a little jarring.

[0] One of my boys - who is twice my age - said “if you want to attract trust funded hippies, just say you are a drug dealer but that you only have thc edibles right now”. I have yet to do that but I could see that working well, from my own observations.

Maybe not the best environment if there are places that celebrate material success but also dont cost as much or have favelas literally at the ground level.

It’s possible your willingness to deceive women to try to make them interested in you is what makes you suspicious.

I’m not willing to be a fake drug dealer so that candy flipper blow me, and what is deceptive about moving to a less baller place? Its frugal

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